Insanity

[Kevin L]

I tend to blame Dr. Spock, who even admitted his method of child rearing was a mistake, has led to many children not being able to cope with life and disciplinary punishment. Spare the rod does indeed spoil the child. JM2C

The other thing I would ask anyone to consider on this subject is to have an open mind.

There are any number of things that we think are good and healthy, only to discover later (as knowledge and science advance) that are very bad.

Take smoking, for example. In my grandmother's time, doctors would tell a pregnant woman that is actually beneficial to smoke. It's completely true.

This is because smoking keeps a person's weight down, and if a pregnant woman didn't gain excess weight...she was less likely to develop gestational diabetes.

So, smoking helps prevent diabetes in a pregnant woman.

It goes the other way, too.

Ignaz Semmelweis discovered (before the germ theory of disease) that washing the hands and instruments in a bleach/water solution before helping a new mother give birth will cut sepsis of childbirth down by more than 95%.

Yet doctors refused to adopt his techniques, as they found it insulting that their hands could transmit disease.

Also, there was a Biblical verse from Genesis about Eve having her pains multiplied in childbirth as punishment for tempting Adam, so the Biblical literalists found handwashing before obstetrical work to be morally wrong.

There is much more to these points that I have left out because it is beyond the scope of a forum post, but you get the idea.

 

[bigpaul]

those things might be bad practise but that are hardly insanity.

 

[Kevin L]

those things might be bad practise but that are hardly insanity.

Correct, but I was only making points about hitting children. Our topic may have 'drifted' a bit.

 

[Maverick]

My kids grew up respecting authority, in my home my kids did not question me otherwise punishment was hard, I never tolerated lying or keeping incidents the occurred at school from me, I told my kids I best hear from them than a note from the school. I told the kids never disrespect the teacher period even if you or I disagree with the teaching, they were brought up that's my job not yours. My kids didn't have free access to television, play time is after choirs and school work. If the kids didn't pick up the toys or do the dishes I've been known to throw them away and replacement came out of their allowances.

 

[Kevin L]

My kids grew up respecting authority, in my home my kids did not question me otherwise punishment was hard, I never tolerated lying or keeping incidents the occurred at school from me, I told my kids I best hear from them than a note from the school. I told the kids never disrespect the teacher period even if you or I disagree with the teaching, they were brought up that's my job not yours. My kids didn't have free access to television, play time is after choirs and school work. If the kids didn't pick up the toys or do the dishes I've been known to throw them away and replacement came out of their allowances.

You see, you actually help prove my point.

I didn't see beatings in your post. I also don't disagree with things like restricting TV, restricting access to favored toys, and so on. Most of what you said seems nonviolent.

I feel that I'm in the minority on this issue, but my (emotionally) abusive upbringing and my years in EMS transporting beaten children have probably left me with a warped view on corporal punishment...and if I'm asking you guys to have an open mind toward my feelings on family violence, then I should have an open mind to the idea that I may be wrong.

Even so, I cringe when people beat their children.

A lot of people here appeal to the slippery slope when it comes to issues of right and wrong, and I have always maintained that the slippery slope is a fallacy.

Even so, if everyone believes in the slippery slope when it comes to gun control and governmental handouts, how come people can't see the slippery slope when spanking a child can progress to horrible beatings by slow stages?

That is my experience (as a medic).

Again, I don't ask anyone to agree with me (although it would be nice), but I just ask you guys to see my points.

 

[Maverick]

You see, you actually help prove my point.

I didn't see beatings in your post. I also don't disagree with things like restricting TV, restricting access to favored toys, and so on. Most of what you said seems nonviolent.

I feel that I'm in the minority on this issue, but my (emotionally) abusive upbringing and my years in EMS transporting beaten children have probably left me with a warped view on corporal punishment...and if I'm asking you guys to have an open mind toward my feelings on family violence, then I should have an open mind to the idea that I may be wrong.

Even so, I cringe when people beat their children.

I did punish the boys by belt (reserved for lying and disrespecting Mom and I) not the girls, I also believe we should return to corporal punishment in our school system.

 

[Kevin L]

I did punish the boys by belt (reserved for lying and disrespecting Mom and I) not the girls, I also believe we should return to corporal punishment in our school system.

I understand and respect your view, even if I disagree.

I can't see assaulting any child with a weapon as a good thing.

 

[Maverick]

I understand and respect your view, even if I disagree.

I can't see assaulting any child with a weapon as a good thing.

The way I see things we didn't have the problems in schools we see today, back in my time when we had corporal punishment and I have faced that leather paddle in school, we had none of this negotiation crap in school and homes, we learned. Today it's bad enough kids aren't disciplined at home but the lack of respect and disciplined in school is throwing repercussion of one's action out the window. My punishment wasn't done in hatred or malice intent so assaulting it wasn't and the belt wasn't used as a weapon.

 

[Kevin L]

The way I see things we didn't have the problems in schools we see today, back in my time when we had corporal punishment and I have faced that leather paddle in school, we had none of this negotiation crap in school and homes, we learned. Today it's bad enough kids aren't disciplined at home but the lack of respect and disciplined in school is throwing repercussion of one's action out the window. My punishment wasn't done in hatred or malice intent so assaulting it wasn't and the belt wasn't used as a weapon.

I understand, but back in your day they probably made left-handed students write with their right hands and punsih them if they didn't.

Also, back in your day autistic students were beaten because they believed (for reasons having nothing to do with discipline) that autism could be cured by inflicting pain.

Also, kids were beaten for having petit-mal eplilepsy, as having this kind of seizure means that you stare into space and are accused of daydreaming.

 

[Gazrok]

I'm actually a peaceful person, and have always believed that violence in any form is a last resort...especially inside of a family.

There's a difference between a spanking and a beating. Personally, the look of disappointment on my parents' faces was worse than the actual spanking. I can only recall spankings a handful of times, and all but one time, I deserved it.

The time I didn't, was when my brother threw me under the bus for something he did. That's OK though, because I SPANKED HIM after mine. And likely way harder than our parents would have, LOL.... (and it did prevent any future occurrences of it). As I put it, "Hey, if I'm going to do the time buddy....I'm going to do the crime...and take it out on YOU".

 

[tmttactical]

@Kevin L I do agree with not 'Beating" kids. You seem to equate "Beating" a child and spanking / swat on the butt as the same, they are not.

 

[Maverick]

I understand, but back in your day they probably made left-handed students write with their right hands and punsih them if they didn't.

Also, back in your day autistic students were beaten because they believed (for reasons having nothing to do with discipline) that autism could be cured by inflicting pain.

Also, kids were beaten for having petit-mal eplilepsy, as having this kind of seizure means that you stare into space and are accused of daydreaming.

We can always go back in hindsight but that is unfair to my generation and those before it, today we know what works and not work, spankings has its place but never in anger. We should learn from the past not condemn it which is happening today. This generation is weak and only lashes out in anger as we see today and most of this could have been prevented only if disciplined from an early age, kids should never be excused for bad behavior as we see today.

And btw, I’m left handed and never told I should be right handed nor ridiculed so was my uncle born in 1908, he never experienced any issues in school, when would go out shooting he would talk about the rifles for right handers so he taught me to improvise.

 

[Psalm7]

I got a few swats with a belt while growing up but I got away with more than I was punished for . I got alot of paddleings in school .
I on a few occasions spanked My Kids with My open hand . I never used a belt or anything . I taught right from wrong and so far They are on the right track .

 

[tmttactical]

@Kevin L You seem to miss out on the major point. In your career as an EMT, you did not respond to the homes of people that just spanked /swatted their kids, you responded to the home of people that "BEAT" their kids. Your data /experience is skewed. For every child that got "BEATEN" there are probably a thousand children that simply got their bottoms warmed up. Bad data can slant an opinion / experience.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Fifteen foot brown extension cord looped up with a black electrical tape handle. Apply until child will have "impetago" for two weeks, because he's too marked up to go to school. Also switch schools, because they eventually start to question that stuff.

That's corporal punishment. It makes killers. Or, it makes Dad's that don't even spank their kids. I didnt spank my son, he's just fine. No drugs, no trouble, well adjusted, good decent guy.

Having said that, I bear my Dad no ill will. Don't much like the guy, but it's an ambivalent dislike. I think somehow my folks made something they didn't know how to handle. Parenting doesn't always have positive outcomes, unfortunately.

But yeah, I can totally see where someone can be driven insane during childhood, and not have it show until they commit some horrific act. I get it. Just gotta suck it up and move on, and some people break, and can't get over whatever happened.

How you find and help the broken ones if they don't self identify, because of shame or guilt or whatever, I honestly have no idea. I don't think you do. They are crazy, and they are out there.

 

[Kevin L]

@Kevin L You seem to miss out on the major point. In your career as an EMT, you did not respond to the homes of people that just spanked /swatted their kids, you responded to the home of people that "BEAT" their kids. Your data /experience is skewed. For every child that got "BEATEN" there are probably a thousand children that simply got their bottoms warmed up. Bad data can slant an opinion / experience.

I don't disagree.

I said as much in an earlier post when I said that my years in EMS may have warped me in certian ways.

 

[bigpaul]

wife and I were both beaten by catholic teachers-nuns in her case male priests in mine, that's probably why we will have nothing to do with organised religion.

 

[Kevin L]

I did punish the boys by belt (reserved for lying and disrespecting Mom and I) not the girls, I also believe we should return to corporal punishment in our school system.

In the spirit of honest disclosure...when my sister got really drunk the first time and woke up the next day with a horrible hangover...I ran the vacuum cleaner and played really loud metal music, which inflicted pain.

Technically, one could argue that I used noise as a weapon to assault my sister when she was in this fragile (and I was entirely unsympathetic toward her) state.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Lol nah that's funny.

 

[bigpaul]

that's nasty.