Italy to allow those over 80 to die

[BillMasen]

Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by virus
Coronavirus victims in Italy will be denied access to intensive care if they are aged 80 or more or in poor health should pressure on beds increase, a document prepared by a crisis management unit in Turin propose.

Some patients denied intensive care will in effect be left to die, doctors fear.

The unit has drawn up a protocol, seen by The Sunday Telegraph, that will determine which patients receive treatment in intensive care and which do not if there are insufficient spaces.

One doctor said: "[Who lives and who dies] is decided by age and by the [patient's] health conditions. This is how it is in a war."

 

[DrPrepper]

Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by virus
Coronavirus victims in Italy will be denied access to intensive care if they are aged 80 or more or in poor health should pressure on beds increase, a document prepared by a crisis management unit in Turin propose.

Some patients denied intensive care will in effect be left to die, doctors fear.

The unit has drawn up a protocol, seen by The Sunday Telegraph, that will determine which patients receive treatment in intensive care and which do not if there are insufficient spaces.

One doctor said: "[Who lives and who dies] is decided by age and by the [patient's] health conditions. This is how it is in a war."

The doctor I worked with described it just like that. He said it will come down to practicing war medicine here.

 

[jontte]

triage at its worst..

 

[Brent S]

We will see that in the US as well. When the beds are filled up you save the ones that are the most savable.

 

[Codokaktus]

In the emergency they call it the triage-system , red= You die; Yellow You will be treated, green a nurse gives You a hug; seems all 80+ are now red

 

[jontte]

most will get the black and left outside...

they used to have purple here too,which ment you are and organ donor and will be kept alive until the harvest is done,eventually they got rid of that color and settled for black,red,yellow,green..it was too much of a burden for paramedics and docs in the field mentally to issue that purple..

 

[KateMTx]

The doctor I worked with described it just like that. He said it will come down to practicing war medicine here.

My manager said she heard this, and mentioned it being like in war too.
It seems with this virus we have two choices - thousands dying and even more overwhelming the medical system, or **** crazy lockdowns to try to avoid the spread. I keep seeing these facebook posts saying stuff like "So many million people got swine flu, a few thousand died - nothing happens; a couple thousand people get COVID-19, less than a hundred die - total panic" but this isn't addition, it's multiplication. Those people clearly don't understand what would happen if we didn't take measures to prevent the spread of the virus. We would be in the same boat with Italy right now.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Oh the joy

Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by virus
Coronavirus victims in Italy will be denied access to intensive care if they are aged 80 or more or in poor health should pressure on beds increase, a document prepared by a crisis management unit in Turin propose.

Some patients denied intensive care will in effect be left to die, doctors fear.

The unit has drawn up a protocol, seen by The Sunday Telegraph, that will determine which patients receive treatment in intensive care and which do not if there are insufficient spaces.

One doctor said: "[Who lives and who dies] is decided by age and by the [patient's] health conditions. This is how it is in a war."

Oh the joys of national healthcare! Everyone gets care alright, right up until a panel of unknowns DECIDE WHO DIES AND WHO GETS TO LIVE!

 

[Brent S]

My manager said she heard this, and mentioned it being like in war too.
It seems with this virus we have two choices - thousands dying and even more overwhelming the medical system, or **** crazy lockdowns to try to avoid the spread. I keep seeing these facebook posts saying stuff like "So many million people got swine flu, a few thousand died - nothing happens; a couple thousand people get COVID-19, less than a hundred die - total panic" but this isn't addition, it's multiplication. Those people clearly don't understand what would happen if we didn't take measures to prevent the spread of the virus. We would be in the same boat with Italy right now.

I’m afraid we are likely to be soon.

 

[Brent S]

Oh the joy



Oh the joys of national healthcare! Everyone gets care alright, right up until a panel of unknowns DECIDE WHO DIES AND WHO GETS TO LIVE!

This isn’t a choice at this point. The fact is there are only so many resources to go around. Some hard decisions need to be made to save as many people that you can. Sometimes life forces hard choices on us, this is one of those. I’ve posted about my sister working at a nursing facility where they have 50+ People on ventilators. The people on these are either brain dead or near the end of life anyways. I wouldn’t even consider not taking their ventilators to help people that have a much better chance of recovering. Yes, a hard choice, but it makes the most sense. I’m afraid that’s the best we have in this case.

 

[DrHenley]

As I said before, this has the potential to be an extinction level event for people over 80 in poor health. This could significantly reduce the average life expectancy world wide.

 

[tmttactical]

This issue has so many twists and turns. If the medical profession refuses treatment, does you life insurance pay off or do the insurance companies consider it suicide (self induced due to health issues). Social Security is suddenly in the black. Pension Plans are now in the black, housing crunch is not better. There are a lot of upside to reducing the number of Seniors. Change the requirement to those over 80, or in poor health OR are politicians (wasted space in humanity) and you will hear a might uproar and full funding for hospitals, beds and more medical personnel.

 

[recon503]

if the politicians are included,, that puts some teeth in the "term limit" definition

 

[DrHenley]

does you life insurance pay off or do the insurance companies consider it suicide (self induced due to health issues). Social Security is suddenly in the black. Pension Plans are now in the black

No that would not be suicide under any definition of the word. It wasn't voluntary.
SS and pensions, yes that's true.

In fact, if this was released deliberately, the most like reason China would do it would be to relieve the 4-2-1 crisis caused by the one child policy, which is suffocating the Chinese economy. It is traditional for children to support their parents, but now they have a situation where each member of the working generation supports two parents and four grandparents. The average anual income in China is around $4,000.

China has a law that elders can sue their children if they neglect them, and force them in court to support them.

 

[TexasFreedom]

This issue has so many twists and turns. If the medical profession refuses treatment, does you life insurance pay off or do the insurance companies consider it suicide (self induced due to health issues). Social Security is suddenly in the black. Pension Plans are now in the black, housing crunch is not better. There are a lot of upside to reducing the number of Seniors. Change the requirement to those over 80, or in poor health OR are politicians (wasted space in humanity) and you will hear a might uproar and full funding for hospitals, beds and more medical personnel.

What a way to help solve problems. We could even solve world hunger, just make soylent green. This is no stretch. We kill babies by the millions before their born. It was only a matter of time before they decided to start killing the old and unnecessary as well. If anyone missed it, the sarcasm is dripping on your keyboards.

Keep in mind, we would just have the lazy do-nothing generation consuming everything and not contributing as the remaining population. Perfect way to end our nation.

 

[Helen Back]

Wouldn't surprise me to find out it's all intentional to "trim the fat" of social services. I think I hear a few years ago that 10,000 Americans retire every day. When they figure out how to target pensioners (especially CA), look out

 

[KateMTx]

Oh the joys of national healthcare! Everyone gets care alright, right up until a panel of unknowns DECIDE WHO DIES AND WHO GETS TO LIVE!

In this case, I don't think it would make much difference. If there are not enough ventilators for everyone, the decision will be made one way or the other. The only thing that might change would be the criteria by which the decision was made.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

In this case, I don't think it would make much difference. If there are not enough ventilators for everyone, the decision will be made one way or the other. The only thing that might change would be the criteria by which the decision was made.

Not sure how long it takes to get ventilators made, but I certainly hope hospitals are ordering more! At any rate not having a piece of equipment and the person dying is one thing...that is not playing god.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Wouldn't surprise me to find out it's all intentional to "trim the fat" of social services. I think I hear a few years ago that 10,000 Americans retire every day. When they figure out how to target pensioners (especially CA), look out

It would help if they actually closed the borders and stopped letting immigrants bring their entire extended d family (who can’t support themselves) and didn’t let old people from around the world come and STEAL what American Citizens have been made to “contribute “ their entire working lives!

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

This isn’t a choice at this point. The fact is there are only so many resources to go around. Some hard decisions need to be made to save as many people that you can. Sometimes life forces hard choices on us, this is one of those. I’ve posted about my sister working at a nursing facility where they have 50+ People on ventilators. The people on these are either brain dead or near the end of life anyways. I wouldn’t even consider not taking their ventilators to help people that have a much better chance of recovering. Yes, a hard choice, but it makes the most sense. I’m afraid that’s the best we have in this case.

I disagree. There are people who are 80 who are in better shape than some even in their 60s...hell 50s for some very overweight, lazy, drug fiends and indulgent types. Politicians can NEVER EVER be allowed to start deciding who gets care!! Do you think for a second that they won’t play favorites? The Dems now put Americans second to freaking illegals. Obama had Ezekiel Emanuel put his vision of healthcare for all out there...which he embraced and was pushing. Have you read it? ANYONE OVER 55 doesn’t get any lifesaving care! Anyone UNDER 15 also doesn’t get much care!

“The Complete Lives System gives great weight to age as an objective measure to be used in rationing care. The authors generated an age-based graph to prioritize who gets care. The graph favors those in the 15-40 age group and disfavors the elderly and the very young. The probability of receiving a medical intervention falls precipitously past age 55.

Someone who is brain dead is gone already. They should have to give up the ventalators if someone with a better chance needs it.