Drug deaths, guess?

[TexasFreedom]

Wow, just saw a news piece that said Montgomery County, OH (Dayton,OH) has just passed 500 deaths due to drug overdoses this year. But guess nationwide how many people died of overdoses last year? Take a guess before reading on...

https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

For 2016 it was over 64k for known deaths (who knows how many more?). That is 1 year. That's about as many as died in the Vietnam war! 52k in 2015, and 'only' 20k back in 2001. The deaths are going up faster than Al Gore's hockey stick!

My words can't give it justification, look at the link & see the graphs. But to this example above, Montgomery Count (MC) has 532k residence. That means over 0.1% of the population die each year from drug overdoses. And note all ambulances carry 6 doses of narcan (a shot that saves many overdose cases).

But put things in perspective. As I said last year nearly as many overdoses as Vietnam. Last year nearly 20 times as many overdoses as all soldiers died in Afghanistan. Twenty times. This is 175 deaths a DAY, so 3 times the number of people who died in Vegas. That shooting filled had every news channel for a full week. Yet the drug deaths had 3 seconds on 1 show.

Now there are two topics. One, imagine all these drug addicts if SHTF. They won't last long due to self-destruction, but they are going to be an insane problem for a time.

Second, now, while things are still 'good', what can be done here? I know there are all kinds of recovery programs, but more are getting addicted than getting over it.

I don't expect anyone to have an answer, it's not a simple problem. But the extent of it surprised me.

 

[Kevin L]

This country needs to look into using a drug called ibogaine.

The natural form of this drug comes from the bark of an african bush, and is psychoactive.

One 12 hour experience (which is, I understand, quite "trippy") with this drug has a reputation for curing opiate addiction.

People lose their desire to do heroin (and other opiates) without going through withdrawal.

It is used very successfully in other countries, but isn't used here because the drug is, supposedly, quite dangerous if used incorrectly.

I still can't believe that this drug is as dangerous as continued addiction, however.

Oh well. It doesn't surprise me how stupid our government can be.

 

[drt4lfe]

The more these idiots die the better......maybe at some point the rest of us won't have to pay so much in taxes....

 

[TexasFreedom]

The more these idiots die the better......maybe at some point the rest of us won't have to pay so much in taxes....

That sounds great until it's your own son/daughter. Your cousin, your brother, your son-in-law, your best friend. Or one of their kids/grandkids.

Off the top of my head, one friend (wealthy) has a 20-something son who's battled addiction for 5-10 years. Been through the best programs money can buy in the world. Another friend (poor) has 2 daughters who are addicted (both into prostitution), and I believe he's addicted now as well. One parent is married for 30+ years, other been divorced 15+ years. Addiction doesn't care about wealth, marital status, age, or anything else.

Look at the statistics. 3 times more deaths than only 15 years ago. Drugs leads to crime and homelessness and eventual death. But what leads to drugs? Evil, plain and simple evil. If you believe in evil then you must also believe in Good. Take out one of the 'o's.

 

[drt4lfe]

It won't be my Daughter..... and maybe your wealthy friend spends too much time enabling his addict son and should just cut him off and give him some tough love ? Poor does not mean you give up and become a drug addict, I have seen poor people rise, work , struggle and succeed, it's a choice.....you choose to use drugs and it's not my responsibility to take care of you.....Enabling is as bad as the addiction.....The U.S. enables too many people.....

 

[Arcticdude]

I agree that most drug addicts make that choice and are a worthless piece of crap. Most deserve what they get and good riddance, we're better off without them. With that being said, in the extremely unlikely event one my family members became addicted, I would do everything possible to help them get over it. I feel that it takes a weak person (not a diease) to get addicted to drugs in the first place and that weakness will prevent most from kicking their habit.

 

[Gazrok]

Here's your simple answer.

End the war on drugs. The whole damn thing was started to crowd prisons with a flood of basically slave labor, and at the behest of big tobacco.

Decriminalizing at least some of the lesser drugs would easily lead to less folks hitting harder stuff to take the edge off, simply due to availability. In addition, it will keep a lot of folks out of jail, redistribute race-related profiling issues, increase the tax coffers, and cut down on LEGAL addicts (because docs can't use MJ and have to prescribe opiods instead).

It's actually a pretty easily solved problem...but nobody has the balls to fight big pharma on it.

 

[Gazrok]

it's a choice.....you choose to use drugs and it's not my responsibility to take care of you.....Enabling is as bad as the addiction.....The U.S. enables too many people.....

I would agree, before meeting folks who got addicted to pain medication due to a doc's script, and honestly began taking it for pain, but then psychologically got hooked (as well as physically). Sure, up to them to get help for it too....but just saying "screw them" isn't really a solution either.

MJ has caused ZERO deaths, is a natural plant, and has provable medical benefits. It's absolute lunacy that we have criminalized a frickin' weed that grows naturally. It's just plain nuts. Personally, does nothing for me...but I've seen videos of folks with Parkinsons, kids with seizures, etc. take it, and in a matter of MINUTES are functioning way better just after taking it. It's absolutely insane that a plant has become so demonized. Worse yet, the public is now fully aware of this insanity, and yet we STILL are unable to truly decriminalize it everywhere.

Instead, we waste BILLIONS each year on an unwinnable, and immoral war. A war in which the true enemy (hard narcotics), would virtually be less existent if lesser "drugs" were legalized, taxed, and more readily available, etc.

 

[Kevin L]

The more these idiots die the better......maybe at some point the rest of us won't have to pay so much in taxes....

I've worked in healthcare for almost 30 years, and I strongly disagree with you.

Many cases of addiction begin with doctors getting their patients strung out on drugs after surgery. Alcoholism and drug addiction are illnesses, not a deficiency of character or morals.

Cigarettes cause more than 10 times the death, taxpayer expense, and broken families than all forms of alcoholism and drug abuse combined.

If tobbacco disappeared, probably 80% (this is a guess...but it's an educated guess) of taxpayer expense dedicated to healthcare and disability would disappear.

 

[Gazrok]

The more these idiots die the better......maybe at some point the rest of us won't have to pay so much in taxes....

How do you think they fund the Drug War? our taxes.
Who pays for all the emergency medical due to addicts of hard drugs, who could have instead used safer, more accessible drugs that are currently illegal? our taxes.
Who pays for these private prisons, to house so many in there on minor drug charges? our taxes.

Decriminalizing minor drugs is the BEST thing we can do to lower our taxes. Not to mention the amount of tax revenue that could be raised from taxing the now legalized substances. (i.e. See Colorado).

 

[Maverick]

I really don't see an end to the drug culture, too much money involved and too many people willing to spend their money. Sometimes like a forest fire, you have to let it burn itself out. I don't have answers but what the Government and states are doing isn't working be it legal or illegal sales.

Washington State is like Colorado, the State allows it and taxes the usage, the State is raising taxes again forcing the majority back underground for the purchase and the reason here; "easier way to ensure that adolescent marijuana use remains at a minimum level — make sure marijuana doesn't become too cheap" and everyone knows here, it's far cheaper on the street and tax free. The legal selling of cannabis hasn't reduced growing crimes nor has it reduced illegal sales of it, we still have the cartel trying to strong arm their way into the growing and store fronts. 8th grade usage has increased 2% and 10th graders to 4% in Washington's own study, local jails haven't seen any reduction in it's occupancy, their are still many questions that have no answers yet.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Very interesting discussion! Each of you make some strong points.

Let me toss in another possibility, keep in mind I put my libertarian hat on and re-read what that means.

First, let people do what they want on their property. Let me draw a thick line there. So you can have cocaine or pot in your car or in your house, no problem, no laws broken.

NOW let me draw the other side of the line: anyone caught violating this serves a painful penalty. Not a bunch of prison time, that's a waste of money. How about something as simple as a big number "1" tattooed over one eye? They see it every time they look in a mirror, and so will everyone else Repeat offender? 2nd "1" over other eye and something more (1 whiplash, 1 week in jail...). Third time: execution within 60 days of arrest. End of story.

Now 'violating' includes getting caught with drugs in public, or committing a crime with drugs in your system (robbery, driving under influence,assault,etc). Note this is drugs, I'm not including alcohol here (but that could be debated).

This is similar to my gun law thought. Do what you want, but when you affect someone else, you're in trouble.

 

[drt4lfe]

I've worked in healthcare for almost 30 years, and I strongly disagree with you.

Many cases of addiction begin with doctors getting their patients strung out on drugs after surgery. Alcoholism and drug addiction are illnesses, not a deficiency of character or morals.

Cigarettes cause more than 10 times the death, taxpayer expense, and broken families than all forms of alcoholism and drug abuse combined.

If tobbacco disappeared, probably 80% (this is a guess...but it's an educated guess) of taxpayer expense dedicated to healthcare and disability would disappear.

Doctors do not make Addicts.....If someone needs pain medication for an injury or illness they know when the NEED turns to a WANT.....If they continue to WANT and do nothing but turn into an Addict that is on them...no one else....Same way with Drunks.....they did it to themselves, not my fault nor should I have to pay for it....

Personal responsibility.......too many people are clueless to what it means.....too many these days feel I must be financially responsible for them....

 

[drt4lfe]

How do you think they fund the Drug War? our taxes.
Who pays for all the emergency medical due to addicts of hard drugs, who could have instead used safer, more accessible drugs that are currently illegal? our taxes.
Who pays for these private prisons, to house so many in there on minor drug charges? our taxes.

Decriminalizing minor drugs is the BEST thing we can do to lower our taxes. Not to mention the amount of tax revenue that could be raised from taxing the now legalized substances. (i.e. See Colorado).

You should check out the rise in Deaths from car crashes due to HIGH drivers in Colorado.....I for one know that driving high from drugs or booze kills just the same....I don't want to be on the road with even more high drivers.....Colorado will find out in time that legal dope is not the answer....as will a lot of other states.....money does not bring back a dead loved one who was driving sober and killed by a drunk or drug user...

 

[Arcticdude]

I agree that the so-called "war" on drugs has been a total failure and a huge waste of tax payers money. I also believe that it was never meant to be won, just another way to grow government. Kind of like the war on terror. I feel that people who get addicted to drugs are basically weak. Calling it a diease is a way to legitimize the actions of the addict and make it sound like it isn't his/her fault. I had a good friend who got addicted to drugs years later after coming home from Vietnam. It eventually killed him. It was sad to see but he was a weak man and did it to himself.

 

[Silent Earth]

Personally after losing two friends to drugs back in the 1970s I would like to see president Duterte (spl) of the Fillipines approach rolled out globally, Smugglers, Dealers and Addicts, just shoot them on sight.

 

[Gazrok]

Some folks need to see the new Kingsman movie.

As for the levels of THC in car deaths in CO, have you also checked these statistics yourself to EXCLUDE other items? For example, it's far more likely they ALSO did alcohol and THAT is the determining factor for the crash...not the weed.

Statistics....lies damn lies.

From factcheck.org, for example:
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/

But the limitations of the data make it impossible to know for sure how many of the documented incidents were directly caused by marijuana use. Unlike alcohol, for example, testing positive for marijuana doesn’t necessarily mean a person is under the influence of the drug at the time of the traffic accident.

Here is how they fool you:

It’s also worth noting that, according to the report, 37 percent of all drivers in 2014 who tested positive for marijuana, not just those involved in traffic fatalities, also had alcohol in their system. An additional 15 percent of all marijuana-positive drivers had other drugs in their system. And a further 15 percent of drivers had both alcohol and other drugs in their system, along with marijuana. Only 33 percent of tested drivers had only marijuana in their system.

Simply put, the statistic is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to quantify as reliable data.

 

[Gazrok]

Keep in mind, I'm talking about weed here...not hard drugs. A guy high on weed is more likely to sit down and order a pizza vs. go on drive...lol.

I still believe that laws against drugs such as cocaine, etc. are perfectly valid, but I also feel the billions spent on combating them would be a thing of the past, if this one herb (only a drug in name) was decriminalized.

 

[Maverick]

Personally after losing two friends to drugs back in the 1970s I would like to see president Duterte (spl) of the Fillipines approach rolled out globally, Smugglers, Dealers and Addicts, just shoot them on sight.

Though I agree I don't think the addicts should be on the list, addicts will die from detoxication or survive and clean themselves up.

 

[drt4lfe]

So how many deaths from a high driver ( weed ) is acceptable ? 1.....50.......100.......