I'm looking at snares.

[HeIsRisen]

Just to state upfront under no circumstances am I calling you a liar by my prior posts, I said it was rhetoric likely to decrease antagonism by PETA and SPCA folk against the practice which has overtime been more and more regulated by government, likewise the idea of a mean old trapper ripping the skin off of cute animals is not one most people want for fear of having fake blood and tomatos thrown at them.

On the contrary I just have seen no evidence people should go out practicing snaring on live animals thinking no harm could come of it. Oh I'm not youtube wiki based but these are often accessible means of getting information from credible organizations whereby other people will not have access to other sources. If you want to debunk the youtube videos I posted I invite you but I am quite convinced that they are authentic. I'm not someone oblivious to physics sciences were actually my highest grades and I've gone on to do science and engineering related learning such as for my advanced amateur radio certification, geophysical sciences, space sciences, and rocket science. I'm not claiming to be a genius and I am certainly NOT calling you a liar, but I do think that your position is not heavy on the evidence, and you seem to just have a different standard of "harm" and potential for harm. I think that is perhaps what it amounts to.

Regardless some inexperienced trapper has a much higher chance of injuring an animal, in that "small percentage" than a professional trapper does. That is like going into hunting as a hobby and just handing someone a gun and saying go get them varmints. Fact is hunters ain't suppose to go out and blow holes in animals they are suppose to go out and take the animal down preferably with one shot kill.

You seem to be saying, no harm can come of it to the animal when you are really saying, hurting the animals doesn't matter they'll recover and if they don't they are just a stupid animal, now go get your flu shot.


btw --- I sort of think quite a few animals caught in snares, are "harmed" as part of their march to death or escape from the shackles at whatever cost necessary.

How many animals have you found dead in your traps Was it a fun death some massive MDMA overdose or doped up on painkillers?


Is onekind a group filled with moronic propaganda masters? I havn't seen anything that does not look authentic.. can you perhaps point out how the onekind link is wrong?


Ok and thankyou now how does some newbie go out and do the non locking snaring, is there a youtube video on this?


amazingly when you type in non locking snare into youtube you only get videos on making locking snares... odd hmm, and when you try nonlocking snare you get no hits.

Basically what you are saying is having metal wire coated in chalk but one that only lashes across their body at high speed will cause no harm, when it is much better to say it will cause less harm than a locking snare.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but have you tested these non locking snares on yourself and can you attest you felt no pain in the snare being sprung? After you have spring that snare on yourself hopefully with video you will have much more evidence. Now what if fur got stuck in the catch? hmm could that not cause it to lock?

have you tested it on your fingers, your wrist, your neck, your foot etc... if so great post up the video to sooth the SPCA folk out there and demonstrate it is harmless.

I have this feeling the idea you are supporting here is what hurts humans doesn't hurt animals, abuse of humans isn't applied at the same standard as abuse of animals, animals can take more pain without being hurt, am I wrong?

Wow. This will likely be my last reply to you as your train of thought is all over the place and it's almost impossible to reasonably piece together a courteous and informative response for you.

Rhetoric in it's traditional format is something I'm versed in. Rhetoric contains proofs. I've given you two proofs. You've stated that my word is not good enough and you don't believe my understanding of harm is reasonable. You've also said that I think the game that I trap are stupid. You can phrase it how you want to, but saying that you can't find methods of live snare sets or non killI snare sets on YouTube or Google that the proofs in my "rhetoric" lack evidence, you are implyng that i am falsifying information inside my posts to throw off attacks of organizations that actually fund my work.

I'll end with two solid points:

1. I can, with certainty, say from your responses to my proofs, that while you may have an idea of physics, you have little knowledge of modern snare sets or the materials that are used in one.

If you did, you would know that coated cable is used, locking mechanisms meant for live snares don't lock if fur gets wedged in between it and the cable, the only force used to set live snares has to be the game's own rate of travel.

So, me explaining to you the above methods,
is akin to me explaining to someone without a veterinary sciences degree that the most efficient way to get superficial modulus, when repairing a gastrol tear, is to not clamp and tie the bile ducts, but stimulate the sphincter like involuntary muscular response by having a technician stroke it gently. You likely won't debate that fact that I know to be true from practice nor will you find that on YouTube or Google. The difference is, accepting one does not require you to admit you are likely wrong and there are humane ways for honing a man's snaring abilities without dispatching game out of season.

2. I never even watched your youtube video because I have known for years that the world is full of all types of people. I don't need a video to tell me that anymore than I need to Google PETA or SPCA to know that there are people who say those folks and alike are hypocrites because of their elevation of the value of a life in the animal Kingdom over the value of a life in the insect Kingdom as they all likely use some form of pest control. (I'd rather have neck broke by a snare than be made to die of thirst froze inside my own body from be doused with boric acid.

 

[bill harrell]

I've also never met a plant.trying to fight its way through the other plants in its struggle for life saying ....kill and eat me. ...but your either eating some plants or animals or I wouldn't be reading your post would I. So in your supreme judgement of the order of life, you've obviously arranged a pecking order that you deem right. Why would others opinion be offensive if theirs is different from yours.

 

[bill harrell]

Just to state upfront under no circumstances am I calling you a liar by my prior posts, I said it was rhetoric likely to decrease antagonism by PETA and SPCA folk against the practice which has overtime been more and more regulated by government, likewise the idea of a mean old trapper ripping the skin off of cute animals is not one most people want for fear of having fake blood and tomatos thrown at them.

On the contrary I just have seen no evidence people should go out practicing snaring on live animals thinking no harm could come of it. Oh I'm not youtube wiki based but these are often accessible means of getting information from credible organizations whereby other people will not have access to other sources. If you want to debunk the youtube videos I posted I invite you but I am quite convinced that they are authentic. I'm not someone oblivious to physics sciences were actually my highest grades and I've gone on to do science and engineering related learning such as for my advanced amateur radio certification, geophysical sciences, space sciences, and rocket science. I'm not claiming to be a genius and I am certainly NOT calling you a liar, but I do think that your position is not heavy on the evidence, and you seem to just have a different standard of "harm" and potential for harm. I think that is perhaps what it amounts to.

Regardless some inexperienced trapper has a much higher chance of injuring an animal, in that "small percentage" than a professional trapper does. That is like going into hunting as a hobby and just handing someone a gun and saying go get them varmints. Fact is hunters ain't suppose to go out and blow holes in animals they are suppose to go out and take the animal down preferably with one shot kill.

You seem to be saying, no harm can come of it to the animal when you are really saying, hurting the animals doesn't matter they'll recover and if they don't they are just a stupid animal, now go get your flu shot.


btw --- I sort of think quite a few animals caught in snares, are "harmed" as part of their march to death or escape from the shackles at whatever cost necessary.

How many animals have you found dead in your traps Was it a fun death some massive MDMA overdose or doped up on painkillers?


Is onekind a group filled with moronic propaganda masters? I havn't seen anything that does not look authentic.. can you perhaps point out how the onekind link is wrong?


Ok and thankyou now how does some newbie go out and do the non locking snaring, is there a youtube video on this?
All this is wrong for the reasons I'm on this website... I'm here to learn to survive in a struggle for life, my own. And basically most others also. This man wants skills that will preserve his life some day. He has an excellent source of vast knowledge on the subject helping him. At this point I couldn't care less about the ethics of this rabbit or spotted owl or whatever. There will come a time when this man will need the skill ,and practice won't fill his stomach.you can make choices about how you will survive, let him, both will be accountable for those choices.


amazingly when you type in non locking snare into youtube you only get videos on making locking snares... odd hmm, and when you try nonlocking snare you get no hits.

Basically what you are saying is having metal wire coated in chalk but one that only lashes across their body at high speed will cause no harm, when it is much better to say it will cause less harm than a locking snare.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but have you tested these non locking snares on yourself and can you attest you felt no pain in the snare being sprung? After you have spring that snare on yourself hopefully with video you will have much more evidence. Now what if fur got stuck in the catch? hmm could that not cause it to lock?

have you tested it on your fingers, your wrist, your neck, your foot etc... if so great post up the video to sooth the SPCA folk out there and demonstrate it is harmless.

I have this feeling the idea you are supporting here is what hurts humans doesn't hurt animals, abuse of humans isn't applied at the same standard as abuse of animals, animals can take more pain without being hurt, am I wrong?

 

[HeIsRisen]

I've also never met a plant.trying to fight its way through the other plants in its struggle for life saying ....kill and eat me. ...but your either eating some plants or animals or I wouldn't be reading your post would I. So in your supreme judgement of the order of life, you've obviously arranged a pecking order that you deem right. Why would others opinion be offensive if theirs is different from yours.

Yeah, I was trying to avoid that debate and keep the thread on topic. Especially after seeing his passive aggressive intro to the thread. Perhaps we can start an off topic debate in another thread.

 

[WilliamAshley]

omg, you are saying snares won't hurt animals. That is BS. That is the bottom line. Don't try to put off like snaring won't hurt an animal. But as stated animals can get hurt in snares, and you arn't willing to demonstrate this, actually you agreed but you downplayed it as, it rarely happens. Fact is it does. That is all. The OP fed in, but I don't want to hurt the animal practicing. Well you can. That is it. If you don't get that point or dispute that point you are just trying to do damage control or mislead people to a false belief. This is nothing about the value of animal life, or not hunting or trapping animals, only the fact animals can and do get hurt in traps. The guy responded with, you can make it so it releases, and I've responded with ok give your release snare that is scaled to human size and limbs a go and see how it feels and let me know if trying the trap 100 or 1000 times you feel hurt.

Trying to turn this into an argument is just nonsense and seemingly attempting to flamebait something that is a straight forward attempt at stoping someone who doesn't know the first thing about traps from going out and injuring or killing animals, or breaking the law, due to misinformation or misdirection on the facts. The OP is not the only person reading this thread so someone running into this information may get the wrong impression that trapping is harmless, it isn't.

I'm not saying don't I'm simply trying to insure that people don't act on misinformation. That is all.

 

[bill harrell]

Without those people being in a hands on situation what would you suggest so the can prepare themselves for a strange environment to them. If one was thrust into a field that they know their area of expertise is elsewhere. What do you expect practice afterward. Not on my dime. I feel there is a chance of injury to the animal, but that's a weighed possibility. Have you ever got in a vehicle and thought of what could happen. There are risks in everything we do. Heisrisen seems to be very experienced in his field .he has stated his experience and you've not stated any of your personnel experiences in the field. If aman has decided to use traps the best place to learn is from someone who does. As far as ethics , he's past that point and made a decision. Have you used snares? If so wouldn't you want tips from the most successful trapper you could find? If you haven't used them all you have is someone else's opinion who obviously wasn't successful at what they were trying to accomplish. This man claims he is successful. Can you prove otherwise by someone else's failures? No...If your basing your information on information handed you from someone who failed? Who should I listen too in this discussion.

 

[WilliamAshley]

Without those people being in a hands on situation what would you suggest so the can prepare themselves for a strange environment to them. If one was thrust into a field that they know their area of expertise is elsewhere. What do you expect practice afterward. Not on my dime. I feel there is a chance of injury to the animal, but that's a weighed possibility. Have you ever got in a vehicle and thought of what could happen. There are risks in everything we do. Heisrisen seems to be very experienced in his field .he has stated his experience and you've not stated any of your personnel experiences in the field. If aman has decided to use traps the best place to learn is from someone who does. As far as ethics , he's past that point and made a decision. Have you used snares? If so wouldn't you want tips from the most successful trapper you could find? If you haven't used them all you have is someone else's opinion who obviously wasn't successful at what they were trying to accomplish. This man claims he is successful. Can you prove otherwise by someone else's failures? No...If your basing your information on information handed you from someone who failed? Who should I listen too in this discussion.

Practice on yourself if you don't think it hurts give a it try. You can bait an animal without snaring it and you can test a snare on yourself without involving other animals. Hell if there is no risk what are you worried about?

If you want to trap do so legally that is all there is to it. If you aren't a licensed trapper you shouldn't be laying traps. Get the training don't post to the internet, this is the same sort of sense on things involving your health or your animals health, the internet does not know all, it is not a point of accredited information, and yes you can injure or kill animals and in many places that is cruelty to animals if not an undertaking either professional or a means of survival.

Its a serious issue.

How bout I just kick your dog in the head? Just seeing how well I can kick, most people would not be cool with that.

Who knows I might need to kick an animal in a SHTF situation, or heck why not practice on you, that could be useful humans might need to be kicked if things go to hell.