Biosphere, the ultimate prepping project

[Brent S]

I just saw this article, but remember reading about this years ago during the experiments. One thing that caught my interest was that so many don’t believe man is damaging the planet. This was a 20 million dollar experiment and yet they couldn’t produce what our planet gives us for free. Maybe we should take better care of our planet...
The lost history of one of the world’s strangest science experiments - The New York Times https://apple.news/ADY6v8zTPSx-I1yH6dYHxJg

 

[tmttactical]

Brent when you volunteer to move into a cave and just live off the land, then talk to me about man and the environment. I hear so much whining about the environment but none of you folks point their lives in the direction their mouths lead. How much electrical work do you think will get installed without copper? or the material for the insulation around the wire or any of the other modern items (steel, plastic, rubber, etc.). Yes man does contribute but quit complaining when you are doing your share to consume those goods. It is "shite or get off the pot". Want a better planet, quit consumptions of all non-natural items. No car or trucks, no modern houses, no TV. radio or internet. If it is not grown natural, it is contributing to your destruction of the planet. I get so tired of Liberals complaining about the environment and then do their best to keep consuming and using the devices that help create the environmental issues. Does the word hypocrite ring any bells?

 

[Brent S]

Brent when you volunteer to move into a cave and just live off the land, then talk to me about man and the environment. I hear so much whining about the environment but none of you folks point their lives in the direction their mouths lead. How much electrical work do you think will get installed without copper? or the material for the insulation around the wire or any of the other modern items (steel, plastic, rubber, etc.). Yes man does contribute but quit complaining when you are doing your share to consume those goods. It is "shite or get off the pot". Want a better planet, quit consumptions of all non-natural items. No car or trucks, no modern houses, no TV. radio or internet. If it is not grown natural, it is contributing to your destruction of the planet. I get so tired of Liberals complaining about the environment and then do their best to keep consuming and using the devices that help create the environmental issues. Does the word hypocrite ring any bells?

So does continuing on status quote without making some changes make any sense? I’ve said before that I like air conditioning and cars. That dosent mean that looking for Technologies that can provide these things more cleanly isn’t a smart thing.

 

[tmttactical]

So does continuing on status quote without making some changes make any sense? I’ve said before that I like air conditioning and cars. That dosent mean that looking for Technologies that can provide these things more cleanly isn’t a smart thing.

You are making (negative) changes, every time you purchase something that is not all natural. Now I have no problem with consumerism but then I am not bitching about the environment and the problems of the planet. Want to do the "Smart Thing" for the planet, buy draft animals, all wooden wagons and use that that to haul your tools and equipment to you jobs. Oh wait, most (all) of your tools are not made from natural materials and of course none of your supplies are all natural. But then because your think / feel "Something" has to be done, that makes up for you continuing to use and buy things that required planet harming methods to manufacture. Name one technology that does not harm the Planet, bet you can't. So what are you going to do, continue whining or just use the best you can and quit complaining about what you are not fixing. Liberals always want somebody else to fix the problem. They want to complain about a problem. BUT they are not going to bite the bullet themselves. At least I am honest. I am a consumers and my purchases does contribute to possibly harming the planet. Such is life in the big city. I will live with it. There is a difference in looking for better technology vs. complaining about the existing technology, that you are using, and have not found a superior replacement. One method is called research and the other is called whining. If you have found a better technology great, share it. If you just want 'Something" better list is as "Would It be nice if" category.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I like the old saying; "If it can't be grown it has to be mined." Our entire modern standard of living all came about by using the natural resources that we have in abundance on our planet. It's ridiculously silly not to use these resources to live a better life. Here in the US we have drastically cut pollution over the last 50 years, mostly by improvements in new technology. And yet there's still complaining. I'd like to to see zero impact on the earth too, but I know that's impossible.
All that I know for sure is that when I look out my window I see clean air, clean water, trees, mountains and no people. Everything looks pretty good from here.
We all have the freedom in this country to live as simple as we want, or to waste as much as we want. Your choice.

 

[lonewolf]

America may have cut pollution but it is still the 2nd biggest world polluter after China.
maybe if there weren't so many people on the planet we wouldn't need so many natural resources, to my mind the 2 worst things that humans use are oil and plastic, both amount to the same thing really as one is derived from the other.
the oceans are full of plastic rubbish and so is most of the land, well it is over here.
there is only one way to cut down on the amount of natural resources people consume and that is to stop using it, trouble with that is we are a global consumer society and if we stopped consuming firms would go bankrupt.
the only way we can do something about it is either to do without stuff, and I can't see many people do that, or to have a decent long term SHTF event.

 

[Brent S]

You are making (negative) changes, every time you purchase something that is not all natural. Now I have no problem with consumerism but then I am not bitching about the environment and the problems of the planet. Want to do the "Smart Thing" for the planet, buy draft animals, all wooden wagons and use that that to haul your tools and equipment to you jobs. Oh wait, most (all) of your tools are not made from natural materials and of course none of your supplies are all natural. But then because your think / feel "Something" has to be done, that makes up for you continuing to use and buy things that required planet harming methods to manufacture. Name one technology that does not harm the Planet, bet you can't. So what are you going to do, continue whining or just use the best you can and quit complaining about what you are not fixing. Liberals always want somebody else to fix the problem. They want to complain about a problem. BUT they are not going to bite the bullet themselves. At least I am honest. I am a consumers and my purchases does contribute to possibly harming the planet. Such is life in the big city. I will live with it. There is a difference in looking for better technology vs. complaining about the existing technology, that you are using, and have not found a superior replacement. One method is called research and the other is called whining. If you have found a better technology great, share it. If you just want 'Something" better list is as "Would It be nice if" category.

There’s a big difference between saying ‘nothing is going to change, so why worry about it’, and wanting to invest in new technologies to help change how we power transportation and our home energy use. Do I have any illusions that we are going to clean up the world overnight, no. I do know that if we don’t start trying to make cleaner forms of energy then our children and grandchildren aren’t going to be able to enjoy our world like we have. I also know that energy isn’t a rare thing in the universe. Our sun blasts enough energy to our planet every second of every day to power everything we have ten times over. Fusion is steadily getting closer to becoming a real viable option. Geothermal, hydroelectric, etc. there is no one silver bullet to fix our problems, but it’s sucidial to not take steps to try to make a difference. I know that if you run a car engine inside a closed garage, the poisons from it will build up quickly to kill you. Look at all the cars in the world right now, and the numbers grow every day. They are putting out so much toxic crap in our air, can you not believe it will make a difference in our health? Electric cars aren’t perfect by any means but are still in their infancy. The model t was a piece of crap when it first came out, but look at the technological refinements and advances that have come about over the last 100years. With all the money our govt wastes on stupid programs, can you honestly say that looking for cleaner energies is not smart?

 

[DrPrepper1]

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/01/business/loop-reusable-packaging-mission-ahead/index.html

This isn’t going to solve the problem, and it doesn’t come without an impact itself, but I am excited for this project to roll out. Reusable packaging for many common everyday items like deodorant, ice cream, mouthwash, diapers etc.

They send them to your front door like Amazon and pick them up. Could be the way of the future?

Lots of shipping involved, so still going to be pollution, but it may help the amount of waste.

 

[Brent S]

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/01/business/loop-reusable-packaging-mission-ahead/index.html

This isn’t going to solve the problem, and it doesn’t come without an impact itself, but I am excited for this project to roll out. Reusable packaging for many common everyday items like deodorant, ice cream, mouthwash, diapers etc.

They send them to your front door like Amazon and pick them up. Could be the way of the future?

Lots of shipping involved, so still going to be pollution, but it may help the amount of waste.

I don’t believe there are any perfect solutions, but any steps that help eliminate waste and pollution are wise. There will be some products or techniques that end up as dead ends, but there will be some that work out for the better. At least some are beginning to try. Just by being aware of these issues is a step in the right direction and is getting more to start thinking about possible solutions. I’m still amazed that so many don’t believe in climate change at all. Kind of reminds me of the cigarette companies saying ‘there is no direct evidence that smoking is bad for your health’.

 

[DrPrepper1]

I don’t believe there are any perfect solutions, but any steps that help eliminate waste and pollution are wise. There will be some products or techniques that end up as dead ends, but there will be some that work out for the better. At least some are beginning to try. Just by being aware of these issues is a step in the right direction and is getting more to start thinking about possible solutions. I’m still amazed that so many don’t believe in climate change at all. Kind of reminds me of the cigarette companies saying ‘there is no direct evidence that smoking is bad for your health’.

I don’t know if climate change is real or not. There are good points on both sides, I just know millions of tons of plastic and trash don’t belong in the ocean.

When trash is burned, we breathe it.
When the fish eat plastic, we eat the fish... can’t be good.
When there are billions of people on the planet and more products than ever to consume, it has to go somewhere. The thought of one day living in a giant trash dump ( planet earth) doesn’t sound appealing.

 

[lonewolf]

what if we all stopped buying plastic? don't buy anything in a plastic tray for a start! buy stuff unwrapped or in a paper bag.
if everyone on the planet did that it would make a huge impact and send the sellers a message.
I don't buy any meat in a plastic container, my eggs come fresh from the farm.

 

[DrPrepper1]

It’s nice that you have those opportunities. I don’t have access to farm fresh eggs unless I travel about an hour. I could go to a local butcher shop for my meat, but the closest one is about a 30 minute drive. Good news is, I don’t buy a lot ( compared to most people I am around).

 

[DrHenley]

Bush 41 had a hydrogen fuel initiative, with plans to have hydrogen refueling stations nationwide and promote hydrogen fuel cell driven vehicles. Combine hydrogen and oxygen at atmospheric pressure and you get water vapor as the only emission.

Obama killed it.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f12/hpwgw_doe_paster.pdf

 

[Brent S]

Bush 41 had a hydrogen fuel initiative, with plans to have hydrogen refueling stations nationwide and promote hydrogen fuel cell driven vehicles. Combine hydrogen and oxygen at atmospheric pressure and you get water vapor as the only emission.

Obama killed it.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f12/hpwgw_doe_paster.pdf

Hydrogen is one thing worth using. I just read an article where solar panels run a hydrogen separator for saltwater. I think forgetting left and right political agendas and crap is a good start to actually start a good conversation about solutions. Too many politicians have their own ideas and agendas, I think it’s time for people to use their own common sense to help solve some of the worlds problems instead of having others decide for them.

 

[tmttactical]

If it is worth while, let the capitalist system go to work. No more tax payer funded research and development, unless the governments gets the patent and licenses the development. Tired of tax payer paying at both ends. How many inventions and products came from NASA research, were are the license fees? If electric cars are the way to go, then let them stand on their own two feet. Same with hydrogen cars or any other tech developments. Let the public buy it if the want it but do not force us to pay for it unless we want it.

Obvious the Global Ice Age folks and the Global Warming folks lied enough to make people really doubt the Global Climate Change folks are any different. It was the environmentalist that pushed all the paper bags out of the stores so we could all be using PLASTIC bags. So, every time the environmentalist get involve (caring Liberals) we get lied to or things get made worse. If you really care, not just mouth a position, then go the extra distance, even if it doe require more of your time, effort and money. Me, it is not going to change and I am not whining about it. People are not going back in time and I am tired of funding feel good politics and pie in the sky crapola.

 

[Mountain trapper]

This is a silly debate that will never be solved. The global warming crowd always want the government to solve all the problems with the world. While none of these green weenies whinners ever put their own money where their mouth is.
For those who bitch about everything, please set an example for the rest of us to follow. If you really think that petroleum products are destroying the earth quit using all petroleum products. Oh wait, you cant, because everything today uses petroleum products somewhere in the manufacture or transportation of the product.
Nobody is willing to give up any part of their standard of living for some unproven idea.

 

[Brent S]

I agree that no one wants to give up the modern lifestyle, nor will. Even if the us led the way and changed, most of the rest of the world would not. I don’t have a lot of hope for our next generations. I really think the best thing for our planet would be some plague or other disaster that thinned out the human population.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I agree that no one wants to give up the modern lifestyle, nor will. Even if the us led the way and changed, most of the rest of the world would not. I don’t have a lot of hope for our next generations. I really think the best thing for our planet would be some plague or other disaster that thinned out the human population.

I guess a lot has to do with where one lives. Like I've said before, from my perspective, and where I live, things look pretty good. I'm surrounded by clean air, clean water, mountains and trees and a very low population. I can understand where a person that spends most of his life around highly populated areas may have a negitve outlook on things. But not everyone lives around such doom and gloom areas.
Also, many people seem to forget about the great progress that we've made in this country over the last 50+ years about cleaning up the environment. Why not celebrate these improvements?

 

[Petoski]

My father always says ask yourself twice, do i really need this. Most of the things we have we want but do not really need. In my opinion the world would be a better place if a) governments really focus on reducing population b) people only used what they really need and c) things that are built were built to last and easily repaired. The problem is people in general are selfish, lazy and greedy and the capitalist model thinks population growth is the key to success.

With regards to the biosphere experiment, it was conducted a long time ago. It would be interesting to see how a new experiment would work given advances in technology. The real question is wouldn't it be better to focus on the causes of the problems (humans) than trying to put a plaster over it?

 

[lonewolf]

we moved here 10 years ago for a reason, a lot of that was to do with where it was, middle of the Devon countryside, well away from any city pollution-traffic and otherwise, local weekly market where we get most of our meat, rest of it from a farm shop-wife's daughter went to school with the now owners, eggs from local sellers within 1 mile a bit further if I want duck eggs.
the downside of this is we have to travel 20-25 miles to get to a fairly small supermarket but that's what living in the countryside entails, cars aren't a luxury out here they are a downright necessity.

 

[tmttactical]

First don't get me wrong, I am not walking 20 miles to go shopping but mechanical transportation is not required to maintain life. They are required to maintain a normal modern life. AND there in lies the problem. Most folks (me Included) believe we HAVE to have or NEED to have these items. The fact is, no we don't but then we can't live a modern lifestyle without them. I am the first to admit I am not willingly giving up my current life style. The big difference is I don't whine about pollution and Global Warming. When these planet worrying environmentalist folks give up all mechanical modes of transportation, all plastic items, all fossil fuels, all metal components and return to things they can and have made from natural components, then they are entitled to complain about the sorry state of the planet, until then, they are a polluting hypocrites. You all remind me of the obese guy eating his ice cream and complaining about the high cost of medical insurance.

 

[Petoski]

Similar here Bigpaul. Living rural and growing most of our food (all fruit and veg) and use local hunters for meat. We are lucky there is still a few local food and hardware stores in the nearest town and I can cycle there when there is no snow but do still need the car and trailer for large items. Mostly I am using it to gather supplies to build infrastructure to meet my energy needs and renovate the house but I hope to be completed within the next 5 years. Eventually I would like to get rid of the car as it is my largest expense. I doubt I will go so far as to live in a biosphere but you sure would learn a lot. One of the major problems with society today is the detachment from the production processes. If people really saw how things they consume were made they probably would change their behaviour more.

 

[lonewolf]

most people over here have no idea of welfare standards or how their food is produced, most don't even know which animal it comes from and they certainly have no idea of which country it comes from, many have no idea of how the countryside works but they scream blue murder if they see a fluffy bunny rabbit being hurt on some so called farming programme on the tv.

 

[Mountain trapper]

My father always says ask yourself twice, do i really need this. Most of the things we have we want but do not really need. In my opinion the world would be a better place if a) governments really focus on reducing population b) people only used what they really need and c) things that are built were built to last and easily repaired. The problem is people in general are selfish, lazy and greedy and the capitalist model thinks population growth is the key to success.

With regards to the biosphere experiment, it was conducted a long time ago. It would be interesting to see how a new experiment would work given advances in technology. The real question is wouldn't it be better to focus on the causes of the problems (humans) than trying to put a plaster over it?

And just who is going to decide what each of us "need"? The government? Is the government also going to decide where one lives? And how we live?
There are countries that decide these things for you. Communist China comes to mind. They also tried to limit population growth too. They even had forced abortions.
I do agree with you about buying products that last. That's why I try to avoid as much as possible anything made in China.
I prefer the freedom of making my own choices, good or bad, over a nanny socialist system. I also believe in minding my own business and not worry about what other people are doing.

 

[lonewolf]

I have noticed that many American's have an aversion ..nay a hatred..of anything that is made or comes from China, I have bought a few things from China not much because of the time it takes to arrive-usually about a month, but I have never had a problem with the quality, it is all well made and lasts a reasonable time, nothing I bought has worn out or broken yet.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I have noticed that many American's have an aversion ..nay a hatred..of anything that is made or comes from China, I have bought a few things from China not much because of the time it takes to arrive-usually about a month, but I have never had a problem with the quality, it is all well made and lasts a reasonable time, nothing I bought has worn out or broken yet.

I guess many of us Americans that still care have a problem with communist slave labor, substandard materials and poor quality workmanship What's a reasonable time for a product to last for you BP? When I buy a tool I expect it to last a lifetime. When I'm looking to buy any product I'm buying it with the intention of it out living me.
Putting politics aside, most stuff made in China is poorly made junk. I will have to admit that the appearance of Chinese products have improved over the last few years. But the quality of the materials haven't, in most cases.
Besides, I'd rather put an American to work over a Chinaman.

 

[lonewolf]

I don't have a problem with communist sweat shops at least the poor sods have a job even if its poorly paid, and as I have already said all the stuff I bought was well made and good quality, I suspect it will all last me out, as I also said none of it has worn out or broken yet.
if some of the stuff I bought from there was made here I wouldn't be buying it from there.

 

[Petoski]

People are free to decide for themselves what items they need and what items they want but many resources are stretched because of wants. If someone wants a sex change and the health service has a limited budget and they have to cut back on medication for child Leukemia treatment I would suggest their want had a negative impact on someone else's need. I just think we should endeavour to make what little wants a person has, have as little negative impact on others as possible.

 

[Mountain trapper]

People are free to decide for themselves what items they need and what items they want but many resources are stretched because of wants. If someone wants a sex change and the health service has a limited budget and they have to cut back on medication for child Leukemia treatment I would suggest their want had a negative impact on someone else's need. I just think we should endeavour to make what little wants a person has, have as little negative impact on others as possible.

Now your really going off the socialist deep end.

 

[lonewolf]

just look at plastic shopping bags, they used to be free in all the supermarkets, then the UK govt.decided to make a charge for them thinking that would cut down the use, the charge? 5p each which was derisory, that's nothing on top of someone's shopping, they just pay it, the problem remains, BIL takes 20 to the dump along with other rubbish every week, better if they made it 50p better still ban them altogether and made people use cloth bags instead. but I cant see it happening, that takes someone to have a functioning brain and most MP's are brain dead to that sort of problem.