And don't get me started about GM either...
The Economy from different Perspectives
- Thread starter TexasFreedom
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Arcticdude
Top Poster
An empty belly is the best incentive there is to work. Cut off all welfare and just watch how many of the welfare bums get jobs. And if they choose to starve rather than work, so what, it would be their choice. I feel no obligation what ever to help the "needy".
Arcticdude
Top Poster
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Arcticdude
Top Poster
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TexasFreedom
A True Doomsday Prepper
AD,
Uh, well? Can't find a way to put your thoughts into words?
And Doc, it's not good to hold things back. We (I) can't imagine what you mean about GM? Come on, tell us how you REALLY feel about gov't motors?
For anyone who didn't look closely at the GM 'bailout' disaster, let me share just a few stories.
1. Stockholders lost everything, millions of GM stockholders lost every penny they had in stock. Instead GM was 'given' to the union. Anyone think the union used the 'gift' to bolster pension funds?
2. There's a difference between a 'stock' and a 'bond'. A stock is 100% at risk, but a bond is usually leveraged against something. An example, the Indiana Teacher's Pension fund had a $100-300 million bond against a transmission factory. The idea is that if GM folded, the pension would own the property and the transmission 'business' in it (reduced risk). OK, GM effectively folded. BUT, our 'govt' decided in their greater wisdom that the bond was void and the pension got NOTHING for their $100s of millions. Pension sued, they had a valid bond and the contract was broken. And some idiot judge ruled AGAINST the pension saying that their measly money wasn't more important than the big deal. So apparently laws are more important for some than others? I suppose retired Indiana Teachers wouldn't agree...
3. But the unions ALWAYS protect the workers! OK, an example. Union-owned GM wanted to sell off some factory, problem was that the union contract said that all new workers (not even high school diploma req'd) start at $27/hr. Nobody would buy an upside-down business like that. So, the union changed their own agreement for new workers to start at $15/hr. Screw the workers, but they now had a business they were able to sell. Union wins, workers bend over (not that I agree that new hires deserve $55k/hr).
Those are just a few examples, I'm sure the doc can tell us many more, maybe even some personal experiences!
Uh, well? Can't find a way to put your thoughts into words?
And Doc, it's not good to hold things back. We (I) can't imagine what you mean about GM? Come on, tell us how you REALLY feel about gov't motors?
For anyone who didn't look closely at the GM 'bailout' disaster, let me share just a few stories.
1. Stockholders lost everything, millions of GM stockholders lost every penny they had in stock. Instead GM was 'given' to the union. Anyone think the union used the 'gift' to bolster pension funds?
2. There's a difference between a 'stock' and a 'bond'. A stock is 100% at risk, but a bond is usually leveraged against something. An example, the Indiana Teacher's Pension fund had a $100-300 million bond against a transmission factory. The idea is that if GM folded, the pension would own the property and the transmission 'business' in it (reduced risk). OK, GM effectively folded. BUT, our 'govt' decided in their greater wisdom that the bond was void and the pension got NOTHING for their $100s of millions. Pension sued, they had a valid bond and the contract was broken. And some idiot judge ruled AGAINST the pension saying that their measly money wasn't more important than the big deal. So apparently laws are more important for some than others? I suppose retired Indiana Teachers wouldn't agree...
3. But the unions ALWAYS protect the workers! OK, an example. Union-owned GM wanted to sell off some factory, problem was that the union contract said that all new workers (not even high school diploma req'd) start at $27/hr. Nobody would buy an upside-down business like that. So, the union changed their own agreement for new workers to start at $15/hr. Screw the workers, but they now had a business they were able to sell. Union wins, workers bend over (not that I agree that new hires deserve $55k/hr).
Those are just a few examples, I'm sure the doc can tell us many more, maybe even some personal experiences!
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I refuse to drive imports but I will buy American but NOT G.M.
Even though I still get the G.M. employee discount when I tell the Ford
people I have to go with G.M. they give me the G.M. discount to keep
me with Ford.
I'm o.k. with that.
Honda and Toyota are American made........................but!
The profits go to Japan.
Just my American loyalty f.w.i.w.
I have a friend that works in management for Honda.
Guess what?
They are NON union but pay within a dollar of U.A.W. wages.
That ain't all.
FREE lunch in the cafeteria!
Guess what?
FREE CAR for 1 year! Every year!
Guess what?
Absenteeism is almost unheard of.
Why?
The other employees will ask you be removed from employment.
They work in teams and depend upon one another.
Very efficient.
The U.A.W. has tried several times to unionize Honda and got kicked out.
Last I knew started wage for union hourly at G.M. was 28 bucks an hour.
When I left I made 36 bucks an hour and that was decades ago.
I was management.
20 + years ago I worked one week of shutdown and made 7 grand.
ONE WEEK!
I knew hourly workers with 20+ years that were MILLIONAIRES.
They invested, bought property , started businesses, and many SLEPT
at G.M. and only stayed for the medical benefits.
Union employee. Won't work, and can't be fired.
I got layed off as management and they brought in untrained new
managers at $14 bucks an hour.
The Union ate 'em alive.
I saw whole engines being stolen.
Put them on notice, took 'em to labor where I was severely
eaten by the freakin' union and management did NOTHING.
Well I deserve it ya know.
I was a white man with ethics and they were black without any.
I STILL believe upper management was flat out paid off to
turn a blind eye.
One could buy anything in that plant.
Sex?
No problem.
Drugs?
Easy.
Stolen goods.
At a discount.
Yet management got anything checked by security upon exiting for the
day.
Security was part and parcel of corruption.
Ask me about the Chrysler shooting in Twinsburg Oh. decades ago.
The shooter almost killed me!
1970 maybe?
Even though I still get the G.M. employee discount when I tell the Ford
people I have to go with G.M. they give me the G.M. discount to keep
me with Ford.
I'm o.k. with that.
Honda and Toyota are American made........................but!
The profits go to Japan.
Just my American loyalty f.w.i.w.
I have a friend that works in management for Honda.
Guess what?
They are NON union but pay within a dollar of U.A.W. wages.
That ain't all.
FREE lunch in the cafeteria!
Guess what?
FREE CAR for 1 year! Every year!
Guess what?
Absenteeism is almost unheard of.
Why?
The other employees will ask you be removed from employment.
They work in teams and depend upon one another.
Very efficient.
The U.A.W. has tried several times to unionize Honda and got kicked out.
Last I knew started wage for union hourly at G.M. was 28 bucks an hour.
When I left I made 36 bucks an hour and that was decades ago.
I was management.
20 + years ago I worked one week of shutdown and made 7 grand.
ONE WEEK!
I knew hourly workers with 20+ years that were MILLIONAIRES.
They invested, bought property , started businesses, and many SLEPT
at G.M. and only stayed for the medical benefits.
Union employee. Won't work, and can't be fired.
I got layed off as management and they brought in untrained new
managers at $14 bucks an hour.
The Union ate 'em alive.
I saw whole engines being stolen.
Put them on notice, took 'em to labor where I was severely
eaten by the freakin' union and management did NOTHING.
Well I deserve it ya know.
I was a white man with ethics and they were black without any.
I STILL believe upper management was flat out paid off to
turn a blind eye.
One could buy anything in that plant.
Sex?
No problem.
Drugs?
Easy.
Stolen goods.
At a discount.
Yet management got anything checked by security upon exiting for the
day.
Security was part and parcel of corruption.
Ask me about the Chrysler shooting in Twinsburg Oh. decades ago.
The shooter almost killed me!
1970 maybe?
Maverick
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Doesn't matter be it ford, gm and dodge, none of them are completely American, most of the parts are made out of the Country. Being union doesn't mean squat, the way I see it American hands mean American, being union doesn't make it American.
Off the top of my head (and most of these are going way way back):
Automatic seat belts
Speedometer alarms when you exceed 55 mph
Unlined aluminum block engines
Using lightweight aluminum bodies and small underpowered engines to meet fuel efficiency standards instead of making engines more efficient
Diesel engines built on gasoline engine blocks (my father had one...the crankshaft snapped in two)
Planned obsolescence
Boxy cars that all looked alike
THE CHEVROLET VEGA
The killing of Pontiac and Oldsmobile
And it just goes on and on and on and on and on
I guess what ticked me off the most was when GM decided to be the nanny-car company.
I've always gottem the impression that it was being run by a bunch of yuppies that were still wet behind the ears.
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Yeah I agree with that.
When I worked at G.M. we used parts made by Ford, clearly marked
fo mo co.
Parts even came in from South Africa.
Wiring harness are all made in Mexico.
Delco plants in Mexico.
It took months to get wiring harnesses that worked right from Mexico.
Many Delco plants in the U.S. moved or shut down citing wages and
benefits were too much to pay U.A.W. workers.
The U.A.W. cut it's own throat.
Kevin L
A True Doomsday Prepper
I have very little faith in the far future of the American economy.
We are spending more than is coming in.
In history, all fiat currencies have collapsed.
I believe that our debt will spiral, and become unsustainable.
The only answer--as far as I can see, and perhaps I'm wrong--is to become as self-reliant as possible. I have tried to educate myself on how to obtain food, clothing, etc. under austere conditions...and I work in the medical field which, hopefully, will give me a barterable skill post SHTF.
Also, I have stored extra trade goods to barter for things that I will need.
We are spending more than is coming in.
In history, all fiat currencies have collapsed.
I believe that our debt will spiral, and become unsustainable.
The only answer--as far as I can see, and perhaps I'm wrong--is to become as self-reliant as possible. I have tried to educate myself on how to obtain food, clothing, etc. under austere conditions...and I work in the medical field which, hopefully, will give me a barterable skill post SHTF.
Also, I have stored extra trade goods to barter for things that I will need.
TexasFreedom
A True Doomsday Prepper
Jeager,
I think he means medical care items. Each of us, given our skills, should have a significant supply of materials/tools to apply his trade. A carpenter should have a full set of tools. A marksman needs his weapons & ammo. A doctor should have a fully stocked 'bag' with tools, medicines, bandages, etc.
I think he means medical care items. Each of us, given our skills, should have a significant supply of materials/tools to apply his trade. A carpenter should have a full set of tools. A marksman needs his weapons & ammo. A doctor should have a fully stocked 'bag' with tools, medicines, bandages, etc.
That reminds me that I need to stock up on basic first aid items.
Antiseptics, bandages, etc.
Even a minor scrape or cut could be devastating in a post shtf.
Guns and ammo are good things to have on hand but first aid
supplies are also invaluable.
Antiseptics, bandages, etc.
Even a minor scrape or cut could be devastating in a post shtf.
Guns and ammo are good things to have on hand but first aid
supplies are also invaluable.
Maverick
Top Poster
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- Messages
- 10,652
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- 26,523
That's pretty much my thinking too Kevin!
Man hasn't done a very good job on solving mans problems except make em worse. I'll base my ideologue on history not the promises of the future thus I'll trust my instincts over mans promises!
Kevin L
A True Doomsday Prepper
Thank you for replying to my post.
When the economy in Zimbabwe collapsed, a beer in a neighborhood restaurant cost six trillion Zimbabwe dollars.
I'm not exaggerating.
The Zimbabwe ten trillion dollar notehas become a valuable collectors' item, and a lot of preppers keep them as a reminder of what might happen in the future here in America.
Kevin L
A True Doomsday Prepper
Food, books, ammunition, silver coins (Canadian maple leafs), batteries, liqour, etc..
TexasFreedom
A True Doomsday Prepper
If anyone wants to send me a Christmas present, I've been wanting some $100 trillion zimbabwe bills. Last I heard, they were worth almost a dime. The bill wasn't worth the ink to print all the zeros.
Kevin, be careful what you store in terms of usable life. "Stored" batteries have a very poor shelf life. Liquor has minimal value unless trading, and is that the people you want to do business with later? It can get you killed.
I heard a really good talk about post SHTF bartering. I'll have to start a thread on it.
I know plenty of people who have a year's food for a whole bunch of people in storage. I think that's overkill, freeze dried food is very expensive per meal, and isn't the best flavor. Keep in mind I'm in Texas, and you can grow here year-round. But I've got a few months food stashed (for a bunch of people, 1000 lbs+?), but I'm planning plenty of planting. Fresh veggies taste a whole lot better, and we can decide how much we want to plant. The ground is ready, the animals are ready. The fertilizer is ready.
Kevin, be careful what you store in terms of usable life. "Stored" batteries have a very poor shelf life. Liquor has minimal value unless trading, and is that the people you want to do business with later? It can get you killed.
I heard a really good talk about post SHTF bartering. I'll have to start a thread on it.
I know plenty of people who have a year's food for a whole bunch of people in storage. I think that's overkill, freeze dried food is very expensive per meal, and isn't the best flavor. Keep in mind I'm in Texas, and you can grow here year-round. But I've got a few months food stashed (for a bunch of people, 1000 lbs+?), but I'm planning plenty of planting. Fresh veggies taste a whole lot better, and we can decide how much we want to plant. The ground is ready, the animals are ready. The fertilizer is ready.
As for trade Items, permenant or long term storage items are the best. Not only can you stock pile these items, they will trade at a high value. Rechargable batteries last 10+ years and with a few solor chargers, your set. Water and water filtration. Salt, suger, distilled vinigar, baking soda, raw honey, extra virgin coconut oil, spices, corn starch, white rice, beans, pemmican, soy sauce, bourbon, 93% isopropyle alcohol, iodine, activated charcoal powder, real vanilla exstract, toothpaste, floss, powdered chlorine (pool shock), tylonol, antibiotic cream, asperin, medical bandages, freeze dried and canned foods. There are dozens more similier items.
I have several years supply of all these items. I buy more as I use them.
I have several years supply of all these items. I buy more as I use them.
Learned this the hard way
I now keep my stored batteries on float chargers. Be careful, a lot of "smart chargers" and battery maintainers don't work as advertised. I was fooled by one that said the battery was at 100% when it had actually run down half way.
AGM batteries store a lot better than other types. Much less self-discharge. I had an AGM battery I took off the float charger and put in my pickup as a standby when I was having battery problems in the pickup. When I put it back on the float charger, it was at 12.9 volts.
Dry cell batteries, like for small electronics, radio, calculator, etc.,
have a ten year shelf life.
Read the package before you buy.
I have some in original package I bought a few years ago good 'till
2022.
have a ten year shelf life.
Read the package before you buy.
I have some in original package I bought a few years ago good 'till
2022.
