Tactics: Self Defense The Do's and the Donts

Doomsday Prepper Forums

Help Support Doomsday Prepper Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

MaterielGeneral

Active Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
527
Reaction score
875
Location
Near Cadillac, MI
I wanted to do an update but could not find the thread or I did not post it here on this forum. So here is a new posting. Here is some info on self defense that may help you with dealing with the after affects of a use of force.


After-action of a Self Defense Altercation

Check out this video from J.J. of Reality Survival, What he would do after a self defense shooting.



In the video he gives an example of what you should say to the police andI really like it. Instead of just lawyering up you give a small explanation and show that you will cooperate while lawyering up.
“I would like to speak to an attorney before I provide a written statement or answer any questions. But I want you to know that I am the victim of this crime and that I was afraid for my life. I felt that if I did not defend myself the criminal was going to kill me. I will fully cooperate with your investigation and I will sign the complaint against the criminal. But because the issue is so serious I would like to consult with an attorney before answering any aditional questions.”

He also gives some aditional advice that I thought was good and I added to it to further expand your actions that you should follow thru with.

As soon as you stopped the threat, kick the criminals weapon away from him and do not touch. You do not want your prints on it. When the scene is safe, make a brief video and pictures of the scene, do not speak while you are filming, your attorney may want to use your video in court. If there is a serious fact that should be pointed out then make a very quick secondary video. Holster your weapon when officers arrive to show you are not the threat. Show arriving officers any evidence on scene. Any casualties and if you received any wounds. Also point out any surveillance cameras in the area(some cameras are on a loop and if you do not remove the video it may get recorded over). Point out any witnesses that saw the incident happen. If anybody tries to leave before the police arrive ask them to stay. If they still insist on leaving then take a picture of them and/or their license plate number.

Forward text/email copies of your pictures and videos to another source that law enforcement cannot immediately seize like an email account that is not accessible from your phone for safe keeping your attorney would be a very good recipient. Keep your phone password protected and do not release your password until you speak to your attorney. Get the names of reporting officers, badge numbers and the report number of the incident for your attorney. Almost all attorneys do not want you to talk to the police period besides providing your name/drivers license.

Some where in the process after the scene is safe you will want to provide first aid to other victims and the criminal or get a bystander(s) to assist you in rendering aid. Becareful that evidence will not be disturbed or destroyed. When the criminal tries to sue you for shooting him or her it will look better that you provided aid after you defended yourself from being attacked. Keep your mouth shut except to your spouse or your attorney. There is no statue of limitations for murder.

Something to consider is that 911 will try to keep you on the line until the cops get there. Either do your quick video before you call or politely but firmly tell them you have to go and hang up on them.

Pocket sized statement, print off back to back. Laminate and put in your wallet/purse, vehicle, bedroom, near your most widely used exterior door. Basically put it where you will have access to it. Below is the statement and an abbreviated to do list. Familiarize yourself with the above to do list so you can better relate it to the abbreviated list.

I would like to speak to an attorney before
I provide a written statement or answer any
questions. But I want you to know that I am
the victim of this crime and that I was afraid
for my life. I felt that if I did not defend myself
the criminal was going to kill me. I will fully
cooperate with your investigation and I will sign
the complaint against the criminal. But because
the issue is so serious I would like to consult with
an attorney before answering any additional
questions.”


Stop the threat, kick the criminals weapon away
from him and do not touch. When scene is safe,
make a brief video and pictures of the scene
for your attorney. Forward email/text to 3rd party.
Render 1st Aid to assailant/victims. Show officers
evidence on scene. Any casualties and if you
received wounds. Point out any surveillance
cameras and any witnesses If witness leave take a
picture of them/plate number. Get names of
officers/badge# and the incident report number
for attorney. Watch your words and actions.
Watch for interrogation techniques Stand by
your decision to remain silent until you speak to
your attorney. You have a legal right to remain
silent, hold your ground, do it firmly but with
respect.


This could be used for any defense not just a firearm related incident.
You will have to copy and past to Word or whatever. You will have to adjust the size also. #10 font seemed pretty good.

Another alternative statement.
Try to video tape this statement and reactions.
1. I do not consent to searches.
2. I am not speaking to you or answering any questions and I want to speak to an attorney.
3. I do not agree to stay here with you for any reason. Are you detaining me or am I free to go?


The rest will be Michigan specific self defense information.

MICHIGAN SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT) Act 309 of 2006
780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions. Sec. 2. (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies: (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual. (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual. (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

https://www.michigancriminallawyer-blog.com/2012/04/the-right-to-act-in-self-defen.html

https://www.cyabdolaw.com/5th-amendment-right-to-remain-silent.html

History: 2006, Act 309, Eff. Oct. 1, 2006.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cn...eg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-780-972

What does your state law say? Please reference the actual law. Anything different or unique? Remember this thread is not to bash cops. It is for awareness and things for you to consider. Many will agree but some may appose. Either way if you want give your opinion and any facts.

I will attach a PDF of a statement for children because of a law in Colorado. I converted this post to a PDF and will attach that also. I have many, many books in the library on self defense both weapon and hand to hand combat. Some of it pressure points, searching techniques, handcuffing techniques, lie detection and reading body language. If anybody wants me to upload these files then I will. Question if you capture a criminal in your house and it would not be a legal kill would you know how to properly search and then restrain the criminal? Do you have a way to restrain the criminal? This could apply in SHTF and you just caught your neighbors kid and it would probably be bad public relations to kill the kid.
 

Attachments

  • Colorado Child Statement.pdf
    30 KB · Views: 0
  • Shooting Legal Statement.pdf
    75.5 KB · Views: 0
MG,

That was useful, gives way more info than just 'I want a lawyer'. A great point: 1) I am a victim and 2) I will sign a complaint against the criminal. Another one: no matter how many others call 9-1-1, you should call to be on record. Police always favor the person who calls 9-1-1 first.

There is another point. Pure hypothetical. Let's say a druggie tries breaking into my house. My dogs tear off some flesh, and I shoot him to stop the threat. I now have a 150 lb carcass. My problem: Do I want 10 cops walking around my house? You can't miss that I'm a prepper. Everything is legal, but you know they can make my life miserable for a couple of years & make it very expensive. Who knows, this druggie could be a cop's nephew? Nobody can see my house from any property line. In fact nobody can hear a cannon if I fire it inside my house (outside, yes, but not from inside. I can't hear thunder from inside my house, it's that well built). So the big question, do I call the cops? At that point I do commit a crime, but near-zero chance of getting caught. In 10 minutes I can hide a body where it will never be found. I'm trading guaranteed misery for a year (even if nobody comes after me, but you know his family will sue me because I have some money) against no misery now but potential felony? Something to think about before you are in such a situation...

BTW, I just noticed your "favorite weapon". While it was a chuckle, and I understand not wanting to list any weapons you have (because none of us own any weapons as we're all peaceful guys), that might offend any ladies around here.
 
where I am you could lose a body very easily the ATV and a midnight run to the deep woods and it is gone,and after about a week you would play hell finding any pieces lots of YOTES and Vultures not to mention all the little critters that would want a sample,,,,,it sure would be tempting ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but if by some chance you were found out then it is off to jail you would go and stay,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I call the police and hope for the best
 
where I am you could lose a body very easily the ATV and a midnight run to the deep woods and it is gone,and after about a week you would play hell finding any pieces lots of YOTES and Vultures not to mention all the little critters that would want a sample,,,,,it sure would be tempting ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but if by some chance you were found out then it is off to jail you would go and stay,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I call the police and hope for the best
I've heard that pigs make a great disposal system too. Since I don't own any weapons I have nothing to worry about. The police will protect us.
 
MG,

That was useful, gives way more info than just 'I want a lawyer'. A great point: 1) I am a victim and 2) I will sign a complaint against the criminal. Another one: no matter how many others call 9-1-1, you should call to be on record. Police always favor the person who calls 9-1-1 first.

There is another point. Pure hypothetical. Let's say a druggie tries breaking into my house. My dogs tear off some flesh, and I shoot him to stop the threat. I now have a 150 lb carcass. My problem: Do I want 10 cops walking around my house? You can't miss that I'm a prepper. Everything is legal, but you know they can make my life miserable for a couple of years & make it very expensive. Who knows, this druggie could be a cop's nephew? Nobody can see my house from any property line. In fact nobody can hear a cannon if I fire it inside my house (outside, yes, but not from inside. I can't hear thunder from inside my house, it's that well built). So the big question, do I call the cops? At that point I do commit a crime, but near-zero chance of getting caught. In 10 minutes I can hide a body where it will never be found. I'm trading guaranteed misery for a year (even if nobody comes after me, but you know his family will sue me because I have some money) against no misery now but potential felony? Something to think about before you are in such a situation...

BTW, I just noticed your "favorite weapon". While it was a chuckle, and I understand not wanting to list any weapons you have (because none of us own any weapons as we're all peaceful guys), that might offend any ladies around here.

A lot of people do not realize the amount of knowledge you must have and the money it take to do a use of force incident.

Wording is key. In law enforcement the employee is taught how to word things, properly filling out incident reports. After active duty I worked for Georgia Department of Corrections I then moved back to Michigan. I got sick of waiting for MDOC(politics) so I applied and got hired for Wackenhut at the Michigan Youth Correctional Facility the first privatized prison in Michigan. Since I was in the first academy we had MDOC instructors and Michigan curriculum. Once Wackenhut took over the academies the training turned to shit. We later started the Emergency Response Team which I was a member. Additional training on report writing was part of that training. The point is the government teaches law enforcers to attack you and defeat you in court.

Everything you say "not can" but will be used against you in court. Law enforcement are trained in interrogation tactics. They may try being your friend or they may outright lie to you. The court has said it is ok for a cop to lie to you. It is very important to give very little details and if it is legal to do so use your phone and video all interaction. Your lawyer will love you. Did I say lawyer? Yes you will need a lawyer.

During the time period I was a correction officer I got into a self defense fight. Ex girlfriends new boyfriend thought he was bad. He broke a beer bottle over my head and I beat the living snot out of him with a telescopic baton. He lost and ran away. I left and drove home. He or someone called the cops. About 70 miles North I took my Camaro to my buddies because it was running like crap and he drove me home. As I was walking to my front door state police rolled in and arrested me at gun point(stake out). Right then I new I was guilty in their eyes. I'm going to skip a lot of stuff because I don't want to write it but Grand Rapids basically beat my ### because I would not make a statement(Six of them).

I hired what I felt was the meanest SOB lawyer and she turned out to be awesome. The prosecutor would not speak to my attorney and took any and all plea bargain off the table. We took it to trial and my attorney tore em up. The jerk off got caught lying on the stand. If you watch any court video when the cop is talking, he is talking to the jury. The cop is trying to use his authority and eye contact to convince the jury he is telling the truth. Guess what you have to do the same thing. While you are doing that you need to cry. You want their sympathy.

Get this. The judge brought my attorney and the prosecutor to the bench. He said to the bitch prosecutor are you stupid. Why didn't you plea bargain this out. He is most defiantly not guilty and you wasted all of this time(court). So she spoke to my attorney and offered a high misdemeanor. I forget which one. I told my lawyer to tell her to eat shit and die. My lawyer smiled. One last intimidation tactic. They told us the jury was ready and had a verdict. We all went back to the seats. A deputy came out of this side door right next to me and stood behind me. I look at my lawyer and she said that's normal. Then another deputy came out and stood behind me. Then another came out behind me. I looked at her and she said that aint normal. They then gave the verdict of not guilty. Everyone started to stand up and do what ever. I looked at the prosecutor and she was crying. I just stared at her as long as she kept eye contact. I have another reason to hate prosecutors but overall I hate prosecutors. Prosecutors are worst than a dirty cop. True story.

Lesson learned: He who calls the cops wins at least temporarily. Watch your mouth, the cop is not your friend. You are being investigated. As much video recording as you can, phone, car cam, whatever. Do not offer anything, give a copy to your attorney to investigate and turn over to the police. You are going to jail. Maybe temporary or maybe you will need to be bonded out. Highly recommended is insurance. There's several companies but check out https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/of..._term=ccw+insurance&utm_content=CCW+Insurance

There insurance will bond you out. Hire a defense attorney and will help will other costs. My case I paid over $8,000.00 in attorney fees and that was around 2003 timeframe give or take. Just imagine if it was a homicide case?

All I can say is very bad idea about getting rid of the body pre WROL. Gather what video that you can. If you have another person there like a spouse then get video of you giving first aid. As long as it is safe to do so, always render aid to victims and the criminal. In war medics render aid to the enemy just like they do to their buddies. It will also help if the family or the person try to sue you.

If you do not think evidence or other info can be tampered with the you are mislead. In corrections lying on a report is called creative writing. Don't know about cops but in my case the photos and negatives of my wounds from being assaulted were lost. At that point Kent County said the internal affiars investigation was closed and I was told his officers did no wrong.

I like the description of my weapon. I don't see any complaints and its not promoted.
 
The police will protect us.

MG, I suspect there was just a truckload of sarcasm in that statement.

But let me ask this. Same hypothetical scenario. Cops walk around the house. Find a ton or three of food stores. Find cases of medical equipment. Find everything you'd expect in a prepper strong hold, let's say $50k worth of 'supplies'. Cop finds a room of large safes, gets a warrant & opens them to find dozens of weapons, 10's of thousands of rounds, find $10's of thousands in cash, $10's of thousands in precious metals, 'survival' equipment like night vision & ham radios. Faraday cages with lots of electronic equipment. Oh dang, and lots of these weapons have no serial numbers (milling machines are wonderful, perfectly legal).

Now a cop finds a druggie shot dead in this house, which the cops can't decide is a drug-lord holdout or at best a 'nutjob' home. Imagine the abuse you'll get while they 'sort things out'. Which means they'll take all of it and you'll never see any of it again.

Would you still call the cops?
 
That is so funny. The courts have said that the police do not have the requirement to provide your specific safety. Your safety is your liability.
That was meant as a joke. In my case even if I wanted to call the cops, I'd first have to strap on my snow shoes, climb to the top of the hill behind the cabin and hope that I actually got a cell signal. Then I'd have to drive, or snow shoe, 2-1/2 miles down to the road to unlock the gate and wait. If they even bothered to show up it'd probably be at least a couple of hours. I don't like to depend on other people, especially government employees. I prefer to take care of any issues myself.
 
This is a lawyers land . But I make sure I understand why I carry and why Im willing to defend My Family Myself and Others . Iv studied the laws but Im not going to let that slow Me down if there is a real threat . The Gargoyle gets what He gets . If He gets past Me He can get to thoes that I would protect .
But yes know the laws and what to expect . Most likely You won't have to deal with it but also know somewhere small town , big city , rual road some one is made a victim every miniute of every day .
 
That is so funny. The courts have said that the police do not have the requirement to provide your specific safety. Your safety is your liability.

That was meant as a joke.

No joke. This went to the Supreme Court. Police have no requirement to protect. Their logo "To Protect and Serve" was presented as a slogan, with no requirement to actually 'protect' or 'serve'.

I have my own saying. "When seconds matter for life or death, cops will be there in 15 minutes." Act accordingly.

Read all about it, a rather ugly story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
 
where I am you could lose a body very easily the ATV and a midnight run to the deep woods and it is gone,and after about a week you would play hell finding any pieces lots of YOTES and Vultures not to mention all the little critters that would want a sample
Where do you think it got it's name?
mpz5T4o.png
mpz5T4o.png
 
Last edited:
That was meant as a joke. In my case even if I wanted to call the cops, I'd first have to strap on my snow shoes, climb to the top of the hill behind the cabin and hope that I actually got a cell signal. Then I'd have to drive, or snow shoe, 2-1/2 miles down to the road to unlock the gate and wait. If they even bothered to show up it'd probably be at least a couple of hours. I don't like to depend on other people, especially government employees. I prefer to take care of any issues myself.

I know, I was joking back but it came out piss poor. To anyone. If I write something you don't know how to take. Say something. My days in the military as a Staff Sergeant and my days as a correction officer I come across stronger than I want some times. My wife repeatedly tells me I am an asshole.
 
MG, I suspect there was just a truckload of sarcasm in that statement.

But let me ask this. Same hypothetical scenario. Cops walk around the house. Find a ton or three of food stores. Find cases of medical equipment. Find everything you'd expect in a prepper strong hold, let's say $50k worth of 'supplies'. Cop finds a room of large safes, gets a warrant & opens them to find dozens of weapons, 10's of thousands of rounds, find $10's of thousands in cash, $10's of thousands in precious metals, 'survival' equipment like night vision & ham radios. Faraday cages with lots of electronic equipment. Oh dang, and lots of these weapons have no serial numbers (milling machines are wonderful, perfectly legal).

Now a cop finds a druggie shot dead in this house, which the cops can't decide is a drug-lord holdout or at best a 'nutjob' home. Imagine the abuse you'll get while they 'sort things out'. Which means they'll take all of it and you'll never see any of it again.

Would you still call the cops?


I sure would call. #1 Always keep your house legal! If what ever you have is legal the cops cannot touch it. For example different thread I said I study guerrilla warfare. IED's are part of that. I go else ware to assemble and then test a devise. Many components are perfectly legal so I have no worries. Some stuff that may be sketchy I cache on public land and I wear gloves from the purchase time to the cache time.

I could care less if a cop sees my buckets of food or tubs of military clothing sorted by size. As far as a safe I don't think they can touch it. If they got the warrant with false pretenses there is trouble. In other words do not give the combination to the safe. If they want in it get a warrant. I'm still not giving the combination. In reality the only thing the detective is worried about is the firearm that killed or wounded the criminal. Anything outside of the incident do not give consent for anything if you are in your home. You have to video everything! Law enforcement in general always state my integrity is all I got to go on. The courts and the jury usually take their word over yours. I cannot say that enough. You cannot lie about something when it is video taped. Look on YouTube and you will be amazed on the amount of videos with cops lying, excessive use of force and searching without a warrant.

If it goes to trial your attorney if there worth a crap will tear them up for even mentioning a perfectly legal piece of property. This is why I recommended the https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/offers/5890b0827386f/join-the-uscca-today?tID=5997596ea811c just like car insurance for an accident you need it for self defense. Its not just for concealed carry but open carry or home defense. You have to have an attorney. A good thing about this is they pay your bail also.

From a conversation over to Prepper Groups I posted these videos about searching. Its a really good channel by a cop that is a prepper. He is also a trainer. Good stuff.

Prepper Security: Include This in your Firearms Training to Stay Out of Jail


Prepper Security: Taking Detainees During SHTF – Tight Quarters Control


Prepper Security: Taking Prisoners During SHTF - Using an Arm Lock


Prepper Security: Taking Prisoners During SHTF – Using the Figure 4


What You Need to Know About Making a Citizen's Arrests


If you subscribe to his channel tell him Swamp Fox sent you. :vs_wave: Actually I hope you all do subscribe. He has a really good channel with a broad range of topics and most important is that he interacts with his viewers. I will cancel a channel in a heartbeat if they don't at least try to comment back here and there.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top