Plain Stupid

[Arcticdude]

no one wants to be poor ,,,, I live in a small community there is not a lot here the vast majority of the jobs here are low paying jobs,the largest employers within 50 miles are Walmart and several chicken processing plants,top end of the pay scale for most workers tops out at around $12.50 per hour,,,,,a long damned way from 50k a year,but it is what is here so the people deal with it most households with 2 working are hard pressed to make 40k a year,,,,,,,,,,

as for,,,,,,,,,,,,,, everyone does not have the same opportunities ,lack of education or they just are not able to get a higher paying job,or location and the jobs are just not there and then there are those who simply are not smart enough to do much more than be the cart boy at Walmart,,

I know the cart boy at Walmart he is 35 to 40 years old and spends his working hours dragging in carts for customers to use,,,he is not all there I don't know if it is from an injury or he was born this way but all he will ever be is the cart boy at Walmart

I think that pretty much covers my whole damned statement now doesn't it,,,????????????????????????

this is not the only area like this in the USA they are scattered all over the USA and the cart boy at the local Walmart is not an anomaly there are thousands of him scattered around the USA and they are willing workers,,,,,,,

you and AD think you know it all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you don't

No, I don't think we "know it all" GG but we do know what it takes to be successful. Hard work, time and learn a job skill that is in demand. Move to another part of the country where the jobs are. I spent over 20 years working overseas because I could make a good living there. Many of my jobs were rotational with up to 6 months vacation a year which allowed me to live anywhere I wanted. When I set up operations in a major US oil field I provided housing and all meals for our employees. I paid our entry level laborors $35 an hour. Most never finished high school and many were living in their cars before I hired them. Plus they had 6 months vacation each year too. I paid my pipe welders $85 and hour with a guaranteed 44 hours minimum per week over time.
My point is there are good paying jobs out there, even for low skilled workers, IF a person is willing to go where the work is, and work hard. The jobs ain't coming to you.

FYI, I never finished high school and never stepped foot in college. But I did work my ### off and took advantage of opportunities whenever and wherever they came up eventually retiring at 55. I feel that anyone could do the same.

This discussion has made me a little curious too; why is so much passion directed at those who are unwilling to apply themselves, or make the effort to better their circumstances. I'm not talking about those who have mental or physical issues, but the ones who don't do anything but whine and complain about their circumstances.

 

[grayghost668]

FYI,,,money isn't everything,,,but you wouldn't understand that now would you

 

[TexasFreedom]

FYI,,,money isn't everything,,,but you wouldn't understand that now would you

That is quite funny, specially coming from you GG.

First there is God. I don't own anything, it is all His, I just get a very short-term lease on some things. But there is no peace without Him.

Then there is family and friends. None are jealous of what I have, they're happy for me. As AD, I've moved thousands of miles for work. Sure, there are family that I wished lived next door. But there are also family that I need to keep a continent away from. We make it work.

Money is a tool like any other. Remember that young man I mentioned? In the first week he worked for me, multiple people that know him well went out of their way to tell me how much he had changed. In only a matter of days. My money was the tool that enabled me to get him here & help him while he helped me. I don't know that I'm 'changing his life'. But I am impacting it for the better, and I couldn't do it if I didn't have the money to pay him.

 

[grayghost668]

That is quite funny, specially coming from you GG.

First there is God. I don't own anything, it is all His, I just get a very short-term lease on some things. But there is no peace without Him.

Then there is family and friends. None are jealous of what I have, they're happy for me. As AD, I've moved thousands of miles for work. Sure, there are family that I wished lived next door. But there are also family that I need to keep a continent away from. We make it work.

Money is a tool like any other. Remember that young man I mentioned? In the first week he worked for me, multiple people that know him well went out of their way to tell me how much he had changed. In only a matter of days. My money was the tool that enabled me to get him here & help him while he helped me. I don't know that I'm 'changing his life'. But I am impacting it for the better, and I couldn't do it if I didn't have the money to pay him.

ok every so often I am thick headed,,,,are you insulting me???????????lol

 

[TexasFreedom]

I don't think so. You said I wouldn't understand that there's more than just money. And I responded by completely agreeing, but it's a curiosity that I believe that #1 is God, but you don't believe in God. That's what I meant by 'funny'. But my last paragraph is what I really wanted you to 'get':

Money is a tool like any other. Remember that young man I mentioned? In the first week he worked for me, multiple people that know him well went out of their way to tell me how much he had changed. In only a matter of days. My money was the tool that enabled me to get him here & help him while he helped me. I don't know that I'm 'changing his life'. But I am impacting it for the better, and I couldn't do it if I didn't have the money to pay him.

And I think AD sees it the same way. Money is not the root of all evil, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. In some ways, we're not that different.

 

[grayghost668]

I don't think so. You said I wouldn't understand that there's more than just money. And I responded by completely agreeing, but it's a curiosity that I believe that #1 is God, but you don't believe in God. That's what I meant by 'funny'. But my last paragraph is what I really wanted you to 'get':



And I think AD sees it the same way. Money is not the root of all evil, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. In some ways, we're not that different.

TF ,,that was not directed at you I should have been more specific

 

[Robinjopo1]

I have always wondered why no one thinks being an apprentice for 4 or 5 years, and getting paid for it, is not worth as much as a college degree. When your an apprentice you start making money from day one. By the end of the 4or 5 years you are starting to make decent money and aren’t in debt. With the average degree your in debt up to your ###, and just starting a new job, usually at a lower wage. Even though I don’t always agree with TF on a lot of issues, this is good common sense.

My son in law is a pipefitter. He started out making about $80k. Not bad for a 25 year old.

 

[Robinjopo1]

A side note. Your 'income' is not a good indicator of being 'poor'. I've known far too many guys making $100k and didn't have $1000 in their checking account. It's not just about your income level, but living within your means and 'paying yourself' (aka saving). They drove a nice new leased car, rent a fancy apartment, and get every new gadget the week they come out. But they don't have enough money to pay attention.

And another side note, I have a real issue with people who talk about a 'living wage'. There are lots of jobs that are starter jobs. Flipping burgers. Stocking shelves. Any job that takes 5 minutes to learn & a 17 year old can do. Those workers aren't expected to pay rent & meals from that salary. They are learning to follow instructions, deal with customers, make change, show up on time clean & ready to work. They gain far more in skill training than their salary. The idea is they do this for a year or two and move up to higher-skilled jobs which pay higher salaries.

I have far more respect for a guy driving a wreck he can afford than a guy driving a nice truck but won't provide the basics for his kids.

It's just being broke on a different level.

 

[Arcticdude]

FYI,,,money isn't everything,,,but you wouldn't understand that now would you

I never once said that money is everything. As Tex mentioned money is just tool. Some of the most successful people, and most respected, that I've ever known probably never made more than $40k in their life. I have friends, and family, that are considered wealthy. And others that would be considered "poor" not welfare poor, but working poor. My daughter works at a Walmart store. She doesn't make much and her POS husband left her with 2 babies and not a nickel in support. I consider her successful. She's raising these two beautiful babies on her own without any help from the taxpayer. I help out some but mostly shes doing it on her own. My son works for a surveyor. He doesn't make much money either but he's happy with what he's doing. He paid his land off a few years ago and is building his own house. All without debts. I consider him successful too.
No, a person can be very successful and not have much money in the bank.
I don't "love" or worship money, far from it, but I do like that it can help a person accomplish the things they want to do in life.

 

[Brent S]

I agree with arctic about money. It dosent make you happy or successful. One things it does though is make you more comfortable, like when your AC goes out and you can afford to fix it! It also opens more doors for you. Like being able to switch jobs to something you like if you have enough savings to cover your basics for a while. I look at money like it’s a tool as well. Never have worshiped it like so many seem to do.

 

[grayghost668]

This discussion has made me a little curious too; why is so much passion directed at those who are unwilling to apply themselves, or make the effort to better their circumstances. I'm not talking about those who have mental or physical issues, but the ones who don't do anything but whine and complain about their circumstances.

most people tend to do the best they can,,,and in some cases a low paying job is all that they can get,not all people will pick up their whole life and move along distance and leave family and friends behind,,,,so you did good for you,I hope you are happy with all or most of your choices in life,,,,,,,,,,,you should not condemn those who chose to stay where they grew up instead of chasing the all mighty dollar,,,,,,,,

you look down on them like they are not as good as you are,,,,,, and if a person will work even if it is a low paying job does not deserve to be looked down on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Kevin L]

There is an extremely vital part of this discussion that I think everyone is missing.

Sure, it may make more financial sense to take up a vocational trade vs. a college degree.....but that isn't all there is to it.

It is very important that someone enjoys what they do for a living.

The chinese philosopher Lao Tzu once said "Pick a career that you enjoy, and you will never work a day in your life." I agree with this.

We spend--perhaps--a quarter of our lives working.

Taking a $100,000.00 dollar debt in student loans to do something you enjoy seems like a steep price, but it's worth it in the long run.

The constant, unending drudgery of being obligated to work at a tedious, unfulfilling job can be like spending your life in a nightmare.

 

[TexasFreedom]

most people tend to do the best they can,,,and in some cases a low paying job is all that they can get,not all people will pick up their whole life and move along distance and leave family and friends behind,,,,so you did good for you,I hope you are happy with all or most of your choices in life,,,,,,,,,,,you should not condemn those who chose to stay where they grew up instead of chasing the all mighty dollar,,,,,,,,

you look down on them like they are not as good as you are,,,,,, and if a person will work even if it is a low paying job does not deserve to be looked down on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

We live in a (mostly) free country. People are free to stay in a low-paying areas for their own reasons. But choices have consequences. It should not mean that someone who moves to pursue higher pay should subsidize the person who stayed in place. Same for anyone who 'do the best they can', if they make really bad choices, others should not be robbed to pay for their bad choices.

The 'enjoy what you do' is a given. If seeing blood makes you puke, don't be a doc/nurse.

 

[grayghost668]

We live in a (mostly) free country. People are free to stay in a low-paying areas for their own reasons. But choices have consequences. It should not mean that someone who moves to pursue higher pay should subsidize the person who stayed in place. Same for anyone who 'do the best they can', if they make really bad choices, others should not be robbed to pay for their bad choices.

The 'enjoy what you do' is a given. If seeing blood makes you puke, don't be a doc/nurse.

TF most of the people working a low paying job get nothing from the Government ,,,,something over looked by my most of you ,,,the plain simple fact is if there is not a child involved you can pretty much starve

,,,,a single person with no kids gets nothing ,old and no income they will let you starve,,,,,,,,,,,,,

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,children are the key factor in the welfare system ,,,,,,,

they will to a degree help the disabled but that is a different category ,,,,,,,,,

 

[grayghost668]

TF everyone working a minimum wage job is not receiving a check or food stamps to make up the difference ,,,,it just does not work that way

it is almost funny how little you folks complaining about welfare really know about the program,,,,,,,,,,,it is not the free ride many of you think it is

 

[TexasFreedom]

GG, in this country, in this economy, for anyone who's not retarded/disabled, there is no reason they can't earn enough to support themselves. and I'm not only talking a job. They can keep chickens & have a garden.

That's nonsense. An old person gets SS. No, it's not everything, but mix that with meals-on-wheels, food banks, etc, nobody is starving. If you think this is rampant, please give evidence to show the 10's of thousands starving in our country. Heck, find 10 people in this past year. Hungry? OK, sure.

And you nailed it. Far, far far too many are popping out kids to get the welfare check to be their means of income. That really needs to end in a way that encourages responsibility.

And I've said over and over. "Minimum wage" is not meant to be a living wage. A 25 year old who isn't retarded/disabled and still makes minimum wage is not even trying. I have no sympathy for that person. And yet that person most likely has cable TV and a car under 10 years old. No sympathy, not one tear drop.

 

[grayghost668]

That's nonsense. An old person gets SS. No, it's not everything, but mix that with meals-on-wheels, food banks, etc, nobody is starving. If you think this is rampant, please give evidence to show the 10's of thousands starving in our country. Heck, find 10 people in this past year. Hungry? OK, sure.




you can not collect SSI until the age of 62 before that age they will let you starve

 

[grayghost668]

as for the children part of the problem,,,,maybe they should issue permits before you can have a child,,,you must have proof of sufficient income to support said child,,,,,,,,I wonder how that would fare on the election ballot

 

[grayghost668]

GG, in this country, in this economy, for anyone who's not retarded/disabled, there is no reason they can't earn enough to support themselves. and I'm not only talking a job. They can keep chickens & have a garden.

you can survive on a minimum wage job,,,,it is not easy but it can be done,you just don't have any of the extras,,no eating out no just riding around in the car,simple meals,,,,,yes it can be done but everything must be kept at a minimum
it is a boring life

 

[grayghost668]

time for me to hit the road