Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order'

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With time and patience any horse can be trained to work under harness. Even a light saddle horse can be trained to pull a garden plow or a wagon. A lot of horse drawn equipment is easy to make just from all the junk that's laying around most farms and ranches. Years ago I built a horse drawn snow plow, a stone boat, a bob sled, harrow etc.
I think that post SHTF many people that own horses as pets will turn them lose becaue they won't able to purchase winter feed.
a lot of horse and pony owners in the UK don't look after them now never mind after SHTF, you should see some of the scrappy ground I've seen horses on.
I prefer something a bit smaller than a horse for myself, I wont be riding it, maybe set up a travois or drag cart to move stuff around, like I said I wont be ploughing, my needs would be a lot simpler than that.
 
a lot of horse and pony owners in the UK don't look after them now never mind after SHTF, you should see some of the scrappy ground I've seen horses on.
I prefer something a bit smaller than a horse for myself, I wont be riding it, maybe set up a travois or drag cart to move stuff around, like I said I wont be ploughing, my needs would be a lot simpler than that.
You mentioned a donkey earlier. It sounds like for your situation a donkey would be a great fit. Donkeys are easy keepers. They can survive on marginal pasture even in winter, can pack a decent sized load and can pull a cart too. When I was about 9 or 10 I had a couple donkeys that I used for packing in to the mountains.
My wife is looking for a couple of small donkeys or burrows. They do a good job of keeping the predators aways from the cattle during calving time.
 
Alpacas are very popular as a different sort of pet and I have seen a few in this area, I think they have been used as pack animals and I think someone is using them for a business doing trekking across country, they are also good for guarding stock animals, they hate foxes and will keep them away from sheep and lambs. although they can be a bit stand offish if they don't know you.
 
You know, a Faraday enclosure doesn't have to be expensive. I wrap my panels using rolled cardboard and the big rolls of thick aluminum foil. I put two panels back to back and first wrap with cardboard, then several layers of foil and the cardboard again, to protect the foil. I get the rolls of foil that are 2' x 1000' and only cost $50. Can wrap a lot of stuff with that foil. I use the rolled cardboard but you could easily use old boxes.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LNGM8E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ch...-heavy-duty-aluminum-foil-roll/12224X1HD.html

Thanks for the tip. I will use this method for the stored panels. In the very complex and highly technical research I viewed, the debate was nothing needed for storage and the other side required very complex Faraday cage and extreme grounding and then it still might not be enough. I like your approach, it might not work in the end but, it is an affordable method to try. I am not the U.S. Military, my budget against EMP is very limited. I like Oldcoots concept, fits into my budget and knowledge level.
 
Alpacas are very popular as a different sort of pet and I have seen a few in this area, I think they have been used as pack animals and I think someone is using them for a business doing trekking across country, they are also good for guarding stock animals, they hate foxes and will keep them away from sheep and lambs. although they can be a bit stand offish if they don't know you.

Alpaca's do make real good herd guard animals. The best ones are the ones raise with people. The ones just raised as herd (fiber) animals can be rude and aggressive. They do make good pack animals but again have to have been raised with people. The cost of Alpaca's has fluctuated wildly. They were a going trend for while and the prices sky rocketed ($10,000 or more for some). Now I think the prices have severely dropped but I can't say how low, lost interest a long time ago. The fiber of the Alpaca is the second softest natural fiber in the world. The fiber is also very light weight and about 5 to 7 times warmer than wool. The worlds softest natural fiber tittle belongs to the Vicuna and a man's coat will cost about $25,000.
 
Alpaca's do make real good herd guard animals. The best ones are the ones raise with people. The ones just raised as herd (fiber) animals can be rude and aggressive. They do make good pack animals but again have to have been raised with people. The cost of Alpaca's has fluctuated wildly. They were a going trend for while and the prices sky rocketed ($10,000 or more for some). Now I think the prices have severely dropped but I can't say how low, lost interest a long time ago. The fiber of the Alpaca is the second softest natural fiber in the world. The fiber is also very light weight and about 5 to 7 times warmer than wool. The worlds softest natural fiber tittle belongs to the Vicuna and a man's coat will cost about $25,000.
I just don't like any animal that will spit at you.
 
I just don't like any animal that will spit at you.

Yes, the herd Alpaca will behave rudely and very aggressively. I would not want a herd Alpaca near me. If the Alpaca has been raised around humans and has been treated well, they make outstanding herd guards and pack animals. All in all, except for the benefit of the fiber, I think pack mules are a better bet. If I lived in cold arctic type climates, then the Alpaca would win. Since I don't see freezing temps, the mules win.
 
there are 4 horses in a field less than 100 yards away from my house, I am keeping my eyes on them for post SHTF.

Are you saying you plan to turn Marauder? OR simply watching to make sure they are well taken care of in the event of a SHTF?
 
So I understand the danger of an EMP attack and the resulting chaos that would ensue. Lots of people die and anyone who survives has to go back to using horses and herding alpacas. But the difference between the post-EMP world and the pre-industrial world is the knowledge of how electricity works, how other technologies work, and the knowledge of modern medicine. While life expectancy would drop significantly, I don't think it would completely revert to earlier times (after the initial die-off) because people will still know, for example, that blood-letting is not a way to cure disease and that you need to wash your hands when delivering a baby. Also, while the grid will go down, there will be plenty of people with solar panels and other electric generators that still function. It's not like there will be electricity absorbing nanites like in that tv show Revolution. So people will start to rebuild because that's what people do. They may have to fight for every little thing along the way, but they will.
 
KateMTx

For me that is the big debate, will there be solar panels that survive. Some experts say yes, if not installed. Some say yes even if they are installed but properly grounded. Some say they must be stored in a Faraday Cage setup and then you get the ones that say nothing, the average person can afford, is going to save them. So it is possible we could revert to a form of 1800. We will maintain our knowledge base for a few generations but not forever. We either find a way to recover electricity or we will start to lose information. Too many libraries have started to move to electronic info and are removing the paper knowledge base. It will be scary either way.
 
So I understand the danger of an EMP attack and the resulting chaos that would ensue. Lots of people die and anyone who survives has to go back to using horses and herding alpacas. But the difference between the post-EMP world and the pre-industrial world is the knowledge of how electricity works, how other technologies work, and the knowledge of modern medicine. While life expectancy would drop significantly, I don't think it would completely revert to earlier times (after the initial die-off) because people will still know, for example, that blood-letting is not a way to cure disease and that you need to wash your hands when delivering a baby. Also, while the grid will go down, there will be plenty of people with solar panels and other electric generators that still function. It's not like there will be electricity absorbing nanites like in that tv show Revolution. So people will start to rebuild because that's what people do. They may have to fight for every little thing along the way, but they will.
Here is my take on an attack using nuclear weapons. The "old school" attack with hundreds/thousands of ground burst nukes used by each side (and maybe more countries) would do extreme damage and possibly end mankind due to nuclear winter. A "new school" EMP attack, using just a few air burst specialized nukes, would cause no structural damage, would start no fires and thus no nuclear winter, and kill very few outright (wouldn't want to be in a plane at that time). Such an attack kills by loss of services, which modern folks depend upon for their lives. Not the case when I was a Minuteman Launch Officer in the early 80s. Back then, we had an option to use high altitude fuzing bursts which would have disrupted communication, but that is about all it would have done. That was back before the microchip and computers controlling every aspect of our lives. Our modern dependence on electronics is why EMP is such a deadly weapon. Today, fry the microchip and everything stops working. Since almost no food is grown locally nowadays and actually comes from all over the world, halt distribution and 90% of the population starves to death.

With a conventional nuclear exchange between superpowers, the whole world gets impacted... even if no warheads explode on your continent. Radiation and particulates in the atmosphere would spread worldwide. With an EMP attack, the impact is localized. This means parts of the world, and maybe even parts of our country, would not be impacted and thus be available to start the rebuilding process. We have armed forces and resources spread all over the globe and they too would be able to assist... given time.

My point is, rebuilding will be much easier after an EMP attack. Not so after a conventional nuclear strike. So for me, I don't prep to survive a nuclear exchange. Not the kind of world I would want to live in. But I do prep to survive after an EMP attack as the environment has not been compromised and help (rebuilding) will arrive. Just a matter of time. So my thoughts are after an EMP attack, yes we will have a great loss of life and chaos... especially in the cities. Those remaining will be sent back in time and probably further back in time than we think, depending on how well prepared. But this will be short term. As replacement electronics start coming in, basic services will start to be restored. There will be a mass migration of folks into the impacted areas to repopulate and take advantage of all the resources/structures still in place.

I picture our military stationed overseas returning within weeks & months to our coastal port cities. They will start the rebuilding process there and from there direct the import of foods, electronics, equipment & personnel needed to bring services back. Will not be quick but it will happen. We just have to prep to survive until services are brought back. Point being, as quick as an EMP attack can send us back 200 + years, the recovery can be almost as quick.
 
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@OldCoot

I tend to agree with almost all you said, I am just not sure that a EMP attack would not trigger a full blown nuclear response and then there will not be any returning troops to help out. I really do hope you are correct, I like your outcome much better than my thoughts. I just cannot visualize any country limiting the attack to just an EMP event and then we do not respond with everything we have. While I do plan to store spare solar panels as you have shown, I don't plan for a nuclear event. Wrapping the Solar panels is a good method to protect against sun (solar) EMP events.
 
@OldCoot

I tend to agree with almost all you said, I am just not sure that a EMP attack would not trigger a full blown nuclear response and then there will not be any returning troops to help out. I really do hope you are correct, I like your outcome much better than my thoughts. I just cannot visualize any country limiting the attack to just an EMP event and then we do not respond with everything we have.
My thoughts are based upon the doctrine of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) still working. That is what has kept all nukes in check all these years. Where this doctrine does not work is for a power that could care less about the survival of their state ( think North Korea or Iran) or a group that has no country ( think ISIS). Major powers such as China and Russia, like us, have too much to lose from a nuclear exchange.
 
Oldcoot, I do agree with the MAD premises, so I don't prep for nuclear war. I also don't live near a nuclear facility. If I was ever willing to be part of a MAG, yours would be the one I would like to be near. You appear to have most of your bases covered. I will always be alone wolf, as I am a terrible judge of character. Humans tend to confuse me most of the time. Mechanical items I like, they either do their job or don't and have no hidden agenda's.
 

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