all I will say is in a crisis avoid the masses at all cost.even people you think you know can become a threat
Human behavior in crisis
- Thread starter Squirtgunsquirter
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Danil54grl
Top Poster
It really depends on where you live how people act in a crisis. Our community banded together during the great flood of Harvey. People donated so much supplies and free labor to help out the ones who lost everything. Its 6 months later and I know there are still areas trying to recover.
TexasFreedom
A True Doomsday Prepper
Disasters do not build character, they reveal it.
Brent S
Top Poster
There are still good people out there, this site has many of them. I do think that avoiding crowds after a prolonged event is still probably wise though. Not all will believe in caring about others.
Squirtgunsquirter
Demi-God
This is a University sponsored case study dealing with the Fukushima earthquake, tidal wave, and nuclear accident.
I will only provide a link. I found this study interesting as it deals with not the immediate effects, but long term displacement of populations.
However...it is pretty dry. I'm not going to cut and paste large portions, there is no need, a few graphs tell the story.
http://cgge.aag.org/Migration1e/CaseStudy6_Japan_Feb13/CaseStudy6_Japan_Feb13_print.html
The study found that most of the displaced population found housing with relatives. Very few stayed long term in shelters, or hotels. Most stayed as close as possible to the area they were forced to leave (One map shows the prefecture immediately north of Fukushima prefecture received the most refugees).
Makes sense to me. People were forced to move in with family or friends.
Really, that was the gist of the whole study.
I looked around the web for about an hour, I could find ZERO references to any crime, looting, post abandonment by law enforcement or emergency workers, or anything of the sort.
From a few news articles, it did seem that initially, government support for evacuation was slow, but the entire area was devastated, and at the same time a nuclear plant was malfunctioning. I will cut the Japanese Government some slack in this case. People in the area affected by radiation were told to stay indoors, cover their mouths with a cloth, and avoid drinking tapwater. According to Wikipedia, some shelters refused to take in refugees from the radiated area, fearing contamination of those already inside.
So I guess, if you live in an area that COULD be hit by tsunami, prepare for that, have a plan to leave. I would have some different routes preplanned, notes on gas stations, nearby high ground, things like that.
If you live near a Nuclear Plant, it seems a lot harder. By the time you know something is wrong, it may be too late. You could be ordered to stay put, although what the authorities would do if you left is unclear. I didn't find any news stories about Japanese people disobeying orders, so no idea if any did or not. I guess, don't live near a nuke plant if you can help it, if you do, know the predominate wind direction, and estimated time you may need to be indoors and have enough food and water stored to live that long. I've seen things saying 3 weeks, that's a lot of food and water, more than I have stored by a long shot. We have canned goods and dry stuff that would last that long, but we don't have enough to eat for 3 weeks like we eat now. Water would definitely be a problem. No rainwater collection. No filtering from nearby streams. Rough.
I will only provide a link. I found this study interesting as it deals with not the immediate effects, but long term displacement of populations.
However...it is pretty dry. I'm not going to cut and paste large portions, there is no need, a few graphs tell the story.
http://cgge.aag.org/Migration1e/CaseStudy6_Japan_Feb13/CaseStudy6_Japan_Feb13_print.html
The study found that most of the displaced population found housing with relatives. Very few stayed long term in shelters, or hotels. Most stayed as close as possible to the area they were forced to leave (One map shows the prefecture immediately north of Fukushima prefecture received the most refugees).
Makes sense to me. People were forced to move in with family or friends.
Really, that was the gist of the whole study.
I looked around the web for about an hour, I could find ZERO references to any crime, looting, post abandonment by law enforcement or emergency workers, or anything of the sort.
From a few news articles, it did seem that initially, government support for evacuation was slow, but the entire area was devastated, and at the same time a nuclear plant was malfunctioning. I will cut the Japanese Government some slack in this case. People in the area affected by radiation were told to stay indoors, cover their mouths with a cloth, and avoid drinking tapwater. According to Wikipedia, some shelters refused to take in refugees from the radiated area, fearing contamination of those already inside.
So I guess, if you live in an area that COULD be hit by tsunami, prepare for that, have a plan to leave. I would have some different routes preplanned, notes on gas stations, nearby high ground, things like that.
If you live near a Nuclear Plant, it seems a lot harder. By the time you know something is wrong, it may be too late. You could be ordered to stay put, although what the authorities would do if you left is unclear. I didn't find any news stories about Japanese people disobeying orders, so no idea if any did or not. I guess, don't live near a nuke plant if you can help it, if you do, know the predominate wind direction, and estimated time you may need to be indoors and have enough food and water stored to live that long. I've seen things saying 3 weeks, that's a lot of food and water, more than I have stored by a long shot. We have canned goods and dry stuff that would last that long, but we don't have enough to eat for 3 weeks like we eat now. Water would definitely be a problem. No rainwater collection. No filtering from nearby streams. Rough.
Brent S
Top Poster
One thing I thought of is you’re looking at the Japanese society here. They are known to be very tightnit within their families, and their society as a whole is very community oriented. To put it bluntly, they are way more civilized than we are here. I would only hope the people around here would behave as well with a major event. Sure there are areas of this country that compare and exceed these values, but I would bet on it in any major city.
jontte
A True Doomsday Prepper
yes,that happened in Japan,so the case study maker shouldn't be surprized that there were no looting etc.
it's not in the "nature of that society" ,belive still that the Japanese have a sense of duty in them,not found
in abundance here in the west,despite what we may think or belive.
it's not in the "nature of that society" ,belive still that the Japanese have a sense of duty in them,not found
in abundance here in the west,despite what we may think or belive.
Arcticdude
Top Poster
I think much of the problems with bad human behavior depend on where one lives. The town closest to me has one small grocery store, 2 bars and 2 gas stations. I don't think looting would be a problem here. Nobody would need to loot anyway. People around here already help out the few who are struggling, mostly with job offers, and I don't think that would change in time of crisis. The nearest urban center is a couple hundred miles away. That's where the problems would be.
Kevin L
A True Doomsday Prepper
Squirtgunsquirter
Demi-God
Reading some articles today about the current water crisis in Capetown, SA.
http://www.capetowndrought.com/
Reminds me of home. When I was a kid we had to take "Military showers" according to my Dad. So turn on water, get wet, turn off water and soap up then rinse. lol.
I read that Capetown is using security forces to guard water collection points. Even natural springs. I wonder how that works with a spring on private property, could speak to authority "requisitioning" private assets during public crisis, which is one of my worries if anything were to happen here. If you saw the water crisis coming years ahead of time, worked your ### off to buy property with a spring so that your family could do well, only to have it claimed by the state when the time came... I'm all for being a good person, but I don't want to believe its impossible to take care of you and yours either.
The Mayor has instituted a "drought charge" to fund future water projects. Have to see if anything is ever done with it, like a desalination plant in a few years.
http://www.capetowndrought.com/
Reminds me of home. When I was a kid we had to take "Military showers" according to my Dad. So turn on water, get wet, turn off water and soap up then rinse. lol.
I read that Capetown is using security forces to guard water collection points. Even natural springs. I wonder how that works with a spring on private property, could speak to authority "requisitioning" private assets during public crisis, which is one of my worries if anything were to happen here. If you saw the water crisis coming years ahead of time, worked your ### off to buy property with a spring so that your family could do well, only to have it claimed by the state when the time came... I'm all for being a good person, but I don't want to believe its impossible to take care of you and yours either.
The Mayor has instituted a "drought charge" to fund future water projects. Have to see if anything is ever done with it, like a desalination plant in a few years.
TexasFreedom
A True Doomsday Prepper
Your 'military shower' is what most people do in RV's. It's not that uncommon.
But look at the link, look at the water 'supply' over the past 5+ years. Yikes. They used to use 300+ kMI (whatever that unit is) per year. They had 800k+ 'reserves', so no big deal. 2014-15 cycle they used 450kMI going into the drought and only 'resupplied' 200kMI. And followed that season using 400kMI more. Reserves dropped to 270kMI and only they got a bit more rain at 350kMI that season. They didn't learn, using almost 400kMI last year getting down to a critical 1.8kMI. So they think the problem was this year when the got under 200kMI, not 1/2 of their normal recovery.
Their failure was 3 years ago. They doubled down on bad choices which was the real nail in the coffin 2 years ago. Now it's just the inevitable failure.
Compare this to a guy walking with a few 50 caliber wounds through his torso. He's dead, he just doesn't know it yet.
Regarding people with natural springs and such, I can see both sides. For one person to have ample water to waste while another cannot shower is not reasonable. We're talking about water, not some nonessential item. But that person should be compensated fairly. When times like this arise, sharing by choice or otherwise is not unreasonable.
But look at the link, look at the water 'supply' over the past 5+ years. Yikes. They used to use 300+ kMI (whatever that unit is) per year. They had 800k+ 'reserves', so no big deal. 2014-15 cycle they used 450kMI going into the drought and only 'resupplied' 200kMI. And followed that season using 400kMI more. Reserves dropped to 270kMI and only they got a bit more rain at 350kMI that season. They didn't learn, using almost 400kMI last year getting down to a critical 1.8kMI. So they think the problem was this year when the got under 200kMI, not 1/2 of their normal recovery.
Their failure was 3 years ago. They doubled down on bad choices which was the real nail in the coffin 2 years ago. Now it's just the inevitable failure.
Compare this to a guy walking with a few 50 caliber wounds through his torso. He's dead, he just doesn't know it yet.
Regarding people with natural springs and such, I can see both sides. For one person to have ample water to waste while another cannot shower is not reasonable. We're talking about water, not some nonessential item. But that person should be compensated fairly. When times like this arise, sharing by choice or otherwise is not unreasonable.
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Maverick
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That's the problem Jontte (waste) people live in the now not for the future. We use filtered rain water here as much as we can even though we have 3 wells. My dad for years had a sign out at his field well for the cattle, people would leave the water dripping or not turn it off thus he put this sign up 'Abundance today doesn't mean Abundance tomorrow Don't waste my water'
Two words: Momentum and Inertia
Most people will tend to keep doing (momentum) or not doing (inertia) what they have been doing or not doing as long as they can. Even to the point of near starvation.
That is why, barring a period of hyperinflation of course, in a complete breakdown of society, cash will be still used and "hold" its value for a while, even when there is no government to back it. It will have value merely because people think it has value and it what they are accustomed to using as a medium of trade.
Most people will tend to keep doing (momentum) or not doing (inertia) what they have been doing or not doing as long as they can. Even to the point of near starvation.
That is why, barring a period of hyperinflation of course, in a complete breakdown of society, cash will be still used and "hold" its value for a while, even when there is no government to back it. It will have value merely because people think it has value and it what they are accustomed to using as a medium of trade.
Arcticdude
Top Poster
Once California and the South West are ceded back to Mexico, much of our country's water problems are solved. Then it becomes Mexico's problem.
TexasFreedom
A True Doomsday Prepper
You should go to Mexico City. A massive city with little water understanding. I remember a decade or two ago when family down there started getting water every other day. They had a 'tank' on their roof to hold them over. But they (and everyone) still wasted water like crazy. 80 years ago it was a tropical area with lots of rain. Now it is arid with substantially less rain. They have actually changed their climate for the worse. But it's THEIR problem, they created it and only they can solve it.
Arcticdude
Top Poster
I think the real water problem is that there are just too damn many people competing for a limited resource. My immediate concern is for my family and myself, not the rest of the world. We have an abundant supply of good clean water here on the ranch; deep well, springs, creeks and a spring fed pond. There are no industrial, municipal or agricultural operations sucking out of our aquifer.
Brent S
Top Poster
I agree, just too damned many people in the world. The wastefulness could help a lot, but birth control would go a long way to help out here.... I still say if someone could come up with large scale desalinization that is economical they would be set for life. There’s plenty of water on this planet, 3/4’s is covered by it, just not so easy to drink it with al the salt.
