Fortitude Ranch

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If their was an affordable ranch that you beloved suited your needs would you join

  • Yes

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  • No

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Places like this ranch are just honey-pots for fed fly's to collect info, and create profiles on innocent people, while trying to find that one weak link to agree to a pre-scripted act of terror, that the "heroic" FBI stops, seconds before it happens (or doesn't stop like the Boston bombings... whoops). Then the whole thing gets shut down, and people who weren't involved, and didn't even know, get screwed. When the shtf, I'm going to the most uncomfortable, destitute, and human devoid place on Earth, to stick it out. I wanna make sure I am in a place that has water, but only just enough for me to survive difficultly.
Brother it’s hard for me to buy into conspiracy theory like that. But I might be wrong... I see on another posting your going to West Texas . If you need any advice on the best place to go in that region hit me up. I lived out there for 2 years as well as conducted business all over in Oil and Gas space . Btw that region is by far one of the best places to go period.
 
You make great points and if I could play devils advocate just for the sake of greater understanding because I value other people’s perspectives .
Let’s talk about 1. IF you were within a certain proximity from the destination I would argue it is very possible. I’m definitely not talking about a 22 hour drive. I’m talking about a 6-8 or less.
2) if you bought a subdivided parcel similar to a gated community you would own it but could they take it away from you as easily as if you didn’t? Sure.
3) IMO it risky being a small group and it’s risky in a large group. A small group can easily be overcome and a large group has the potential to fall apart .
4) I completely understand your 5th point. And If you were to “network” and find skilled individuals that were essential to the functionality of the community would you still be against the concept? It basically breaks down to every member is need to make the community function.

Love playing Devils Advocate.

1) Lets take the 6 to 8 hour drive. How long is that in walking time dragging a BOB? 7 hour (middle ground) drive at just 50 MPH is 350 miles. Walking time at 5 miles per day (careful pace over uneven ground) so we are talking what , 70 days. Not a good prospect.=== Negative

2) Nobody (prepper) would put their lives at risk by relying on a gated community. The guards would be home trying to guard their families. Second, during a SHTF, most likely any and all legal issues will be enforced or resolved force of arms. Gated Community is what you would Bug Out from, why would you buy into one?

3) It is risky to be in any sized group of NON-Family people. You don't know their mental state. Do they take drugs, legal or other wise? Do they have mental issues? Do they need anti-depressives to stay normal? With family, you know if aunt Sally takes meds. Do they panic in a crisis? Will they fold up under stress? Too many unknowns.

4) OPSEC is not for sale, for any reason. You can't openly search for wanted skills, without destroying any chance for success. Again the problem is you will not know these people BEFORE they are contacted. Once contacted, they are not going to forget about you and your operation.

5) Mostly covered by Items 3 & 4. Here is another reason not to have unknowns in your group. Example #1. You have joined a group with enough supplies to last a 20 member group 5 years. How long would those same supplies last 2 members? A little food poisoning there is suddenly a lot of extra supplies for just 2 people. Example#2: I join the group but have a family that needs the supplies and can't wait until it is my turn to cook dinner for the compound folks. Just one more reason for family only. Safer dinners.

Since any single one of my objections is enough reason to not join, I will have to pass on ANY group not family.
 
1) why would anyone walk? I get that something might happen that disables your vehicle . My view is if you make a camp near a city more long term risk is involved. On the other hand if you take a chance and drive 6 hrs you bring on much higher risk short term but you should have much less long term risk. I think we all can agree on that.
2)Let me clarify the gated community. Your on a working farm/ranch and on that ranch you would have the gated community and the people within that community operate the ranch.
3) I’m definitely not saying take any individual of the street that has a pulse . Your looking at the numbers as quantity I’m suggesting quality of numbers.Gather a community of people would involve networking with other individuals that you know and grow to know.This would absolutely have to be run similar to a business. There is a qualifying hiring process, everyone knows what and who we are as well as everyone has a roll . Honestly you don’t know how your wife , your aunt, friend, or you will respond in a situation until you are in it. Every person in your family could become a liability but are you going to leave them behind? People are assets. You just have to find the right people through networking and relationship building.
4) Again strength in numbers and power. I don’t care a few people know where I am.
If your in a small group you will be found sooner or later and easily overcome.
5) Brother I don’t care about a food supply for 5 years. I care about sustainability for 60years.
It would be a working ranch and farm. All the tractors and vehicles will be converted to natural gas. The ranch would have a natural gas well on the property . We would literally have an unlimited amount of fuel. I have a guy that programs and runs cnc machines to make parts for the vehicles when they break. I also have a buddy that invented a thermal distalation unit that runs of well gas. It can purify 4000 gallons per day.( water from an oil well is brine) this is where we could get water for crops , livestock etc. it’s an unlimited source of water with no pump required because the formation has natural pressure.
These gas wells also produce what’s known as condensate. It’s basically one step below diesel . It’s what a lot of jet fuel is refined from. Just one more fuel source.
All of this would allow you to make your own guns, ammo etc.
Deer would be the preferred livestock it’s more efficient than cattle farming per acre.
This ranch would not be a survival ranch. This is a long term plan.
This ranch would take numbers to operate but would be a massive success if implanted and run properly.

Does this make sense to anyone? Or am I completely fu king crazy hahah!
 
At this point it’s just an idea my buddies and I put together for our families. But we realized
1) it’s going to take numbers to sustain and actually work.
2) we have to find people that have more experience than us to improve the idea.

I’m trying to get feedback since you guys have way more experience than I do at this.
So to answer your question no I’m not selling anything I’m putting my thoughts out there and trying to get y’all to dissect them to find weak points.

Make sense?
 
They probably have some special koolaid there as well. I don't trust groups like this - it kind of defeats the whole purpose of prepping, which is supposed to mean you are prepared and ready for if/when SHTF. If I'm relying on a group to do this for me, I'm not truly a prepper. And they could just decide they don't want me anymore, and after SHTF, it's not like I can go to the courts and sue them for breach of contract.
 
1) why would anyone walk? I get that something might happen that disables your vehicle . My view is if you make a camp near a city more long term risk is involved. On the other hand if you take a chance and drive 6 hrs you bring on much higher risk short term but you should have much less long term risk. I think we all can agree on that.

Your statement right there highlights that you are clueless on this topic. That's not an insult, just a statement on your current knowledge base. You can learn.

I'll explain this one to help you understand. Driving will be a no-go under nearly every scenario. If there's an EMP, cars will be dead blocking every road. And any car that still runs will be a target for everyone with a scope on their rifle. You'd be lucky to drive 5 mph, and even luckier to survive a day. If there is mass rioting, do you expect roads to be clear? Nuclear war? Look back at pictures of people fleeing hurricanes for traffic, do you think roads will be passable? And that covers most weather-related messes. In fact can you name a single example of SHTF where roads will be clear and drivable for a 8-hour trip?
 
Your statement right there highlights that you are clueless on this topic. That's not an insult, just a statement on your current knowledge base. You can learn.

I'll explain this one to help you understand. Driving will be a no-go under nearly every scenario. If there's an EMP, cars will be dead blocking every road. And any car that still runs will be a target for everyone with a scope on their rifle. You'd be lucky to drive 5 mph, and even luckier to survive a day. If there is mass rioting, do you expect roads to be clear? Nuclear war? Look back at pictures of people fleeing hurricanes for traffic, do you think roads will be passable? And that covers most weather-related messes. In fact can you name a single example of SHTF where roads will be clear and drivable for a 8-hour trip?
That’s why I’m here to get new perspectives. I’ll be the first to tell you I’m not an expert at all in this space. You are right. I live in Houston and I remember after Katrina hit NO rita hit HOUSTON and the roads were packed for days.
So me being completely new to this what is the first piece of advice you would give me?
What type of plan or system do you recommend?
 
Evanxx. You proposed a great many concepts but all of them require specialized skills and large dollar investments. Take the natural gas well. Special equipment, special skills and if there is natural gas under the property then it is going to cost a major fortune to purchase the property. Networking is just a slower way to advertise. You talk to somebody, they think of somebody, then to them and that continues until it is out of control. The key is going to be logistics and security. If it can't be done by half a dozen, then it will be to big to remain a secrete. Out door farming is not defensible. I could take my simple 6.5 Creedmoor and pick off all your worker / team members and never expose myself. Do you have any idea how high a deer can jump? What kind of fencing you would need to keep the deer from simply roaming away?

Now I can't think of any SHTF event that would require a person to evac to this BOL, where a 350 mile journey would be advisable. As I have stated many times, If you are not at your BOL, the chances are you will not make it to your BOL during a major SHTF event. Roads impassable, carjacking, lack of fuel and many other considerations. My suggestion, start on paper (computer) and list what and where and then how much it would cost. The what --- Rural farm, ranch, cabin, exactly what do you hope to build? Next the where? What location, mountain, forest, swamp, flat land, desert - -the state? Then the cost factor. What is the land cost, what is the building costs, what is the equipment costs. Once you have these nailed down, then and only then will you have an idea if your goal is viable. Don't forget the cost to grade a road, if this property is off the beaten track. Also remember the further you are from towns, cities, the more construction costs will be incurred. Do this before you get too far into recruiting folks. Also many of the skill types you may want, may not want to live in the boonies. Lots to think about and check into.
 
You buy the property not the mineral rights. When well production depletes to uneconomic levels the operator is forced to plug it. When that happens instead of the operator spending 60-70k they will give you the well for free but you have to bond it for around 30-40k. This isn’t hard my buddies and I have all the “special” skills required. My friend that has a compact thermal distaltion unit used in the oil and gas industry will sell me a unit for 20k .
As far as the deer jumping out of the fence. It’s the same as all of the hunting ranches with high fences ..
yes it takes money but not as much individually as some may think especially if you have small scale community.
We know the area, economics of the project etc. and what it takes to scale and operate the ranch.
We just don’t have 20 years of experience of prepping.
Sure we are hunters , campers, and gun enthusiasts but we haven’t practiced the trade as you guys have.
Are you saying you will not be farming because it’s not able to be defended? How will you sustain over long periods?
Anyone could set anywhere at any time and shoot anyone. Should you not try because someone could possibly shoot the farmer?
So it seems the largest problems we face is getting there after a shtf scenario and finding the proper people with the right skill sets to make a functional ranch.
And bullet proof vests for the farmer haha
 
Let me step back & give some guidance. Evan, you want to talk about winning the Indy 500 race and you just got the training wheels off your bicycle. How about a step-by-step plan rather than jumping deep into things. Go listen to Dave Ramsey, do NOT go into debt over this. Start with having a few days food/supplies in your place. Have water. Increase that to a week, then a month. Work up to having a year's supply. And by that point, have a plan for a remote location. It has taken most of us years to get to where we are at. Bug out vehicles, bug out locations, stores & sustainable setups. Step back, consider a multi-year plan.
 
Before I get started, I am not trying to rain on your parade but I am trying to point out some of the difficulties and costs associated with your project. Okay we are looking at 50K and you have not bought the land, just the well bond and the distillation unit. Now add in the very tall and expensive fences. Do you plan to install your selves or contract. How much land to you plan to fence? What is the cost of the fence per linear foot? What equipment are you planning to purchase and what is their cost? What is your definition for "Small Scale Community" ? What is the daily food allotments per person/ per day / per year? How many people full time required to operate you community? Is everybody invested going to live there? How many housing units? What are the rules of behavior? Mixing singles and couples can and most often will create social issues.

Now I have asked you a lot of questions, so I will now just point some bare problems. Yes shooting the farmers is viable concept if your group have the items I need or want. If you are building for a true SHTF / WROL / TEOTWAWKI, then traditional farming methods are out. You will not have the needed equipment, fertilizer, seeds, irrigation, processing equipment or security force. If you just plan to build and maintain a traditional farm community, then just buy a farm already in operation. As I stated out in the beginning, LOGISTIC. Large groups require a large amount of support materials. Large groups also bring along large personality, ego and mental problems. How many people can you find that are financially independent and can just move out to the country side live in your Small Scale Community? You skipped over the travel issue, so these people will need to live there full time. So just 10 couples (20 people) will need 10 separate housing units. How much food must you have stored for each person and for how many years.

You will need to have a project management person on site during the initial construction phase. Site development, land clearing, utility trenching, pad or foundation pours, building inspectors (I don't care how far out you build, they will be required). Then you will have to have structures built. Tool sheds, equipment sheds, animal cages / coups and barns. You cannot live on just deer and crops. You will want some other sources of meat. Chickens, rabbits, guinea pigs, domestic pigs, ducks, sheep, goats, etc. All these critters will have requirements, skills, knowledge, and time demands. And finally the actually housing units build and a whole new set of inspections. While all this is going on, you will have to have the money sitting the bank. Also remember just because something can be done, does not mean it will pass a building code. Example: Ozonation (spelling?) works great and is used in private pools and hot tubs BUT cannot be used in community pools --- WHY, the city inspectors are trained to test for pool chemical concentrations and can't test for bacterial levels, so no Ozone treatment. You may run into that with your water treatment plan or even you gas well delivery plan. So if you are building for rural life, buy a rural farm setup. If you are building for the end of times, you are going to need a lot more money that you can imagine, at least on the scale you are talking. Small family build, yes it is doable, "Small Scale Community" not very likely. Just too complicated, too costly and too little in return.
 
Let me step back & give some guidance. Evan, you want to talk about winning the Indy 500 race and you just got the training wheels off your bicycle. How about a step-by-step plan rather than jumping deep into things. Go listen to Dave Ramsey, do NOT go into debt over this. Start with having a few days food/supplies in your place. Have water. Increase that to a week, then a month. Work up to having a year's supply. And by that point, have a plan for a remote location. It has taken most of us years to get to where we are at. Bug out vehicles, bug out locations, stores & sustainable setups. Step back, consider a multi-year plan.
Why are you guys worried about how much it’s going to cost me? If the numbers didn’t work we wouldn’t be haveing this conversation.
Yes the farm equipment would still work even after an emp. We would use tractors that run off magnetos same goes for vehicles. The gas flows naturally so we would have fuel. we could sustain a modern farm.
Ok instead of me being asked a lot of broad questions going everywhere let’s assume I have the ranch infrastructure worked out.
I’ll paint a picture...
Say it’s a 25 family or 100 person community. Around 25 small houses inside a walled section appx 10 acres.
We dedicate 100 acres to grow crops. Deer livestock, along with chickens etc.
The entire property (400 acres)is high fenced.
Yes some people live there full time if they choose. Others have the option to drive or fly in to the town airport via their (private plane). I understand that’s not optimal.
Let’s assume the property is perfectly square.
I understand you guys are firmly against this concept but if you had to live here what steps would you take to protect it?
Brother You can’t be serious when saying you would or anyone else would shoot the farmers to steal crops. The other 100 people would notice and kill you. Any reasonable person would just sneak in and out at night and take what they need.
The whole point in having a large community is to discourage people like that. You would probably see that scenario play out in small groups .
 
First you cannot protect this community. You have painted a big bullseye on it with your high walls and operating equipment. Nobody else has any operational equipment, so you would stand out like sore thumb. Second, why would I risk sneaking into your compound when I can simply hold you all for ransom within your walls. You are not going to have a hundred people watching for me, they are going to be busy working, to stay alive. As the sniper, I am free to move about and leave and return at my leisure. As farmer or ranchers, you have crops to attend and animals that must be cared for. How long do you think your groups will hold together after I have shot and crippled a few of them. The wounded are a real morale downer. The place is not defend-able, just that simple.

Next, I don't see people with enough money to fly in with their own personal plane being ready and willing to go put in 12 or 16 hours of hard labor in the fields every day. That means there has to be hired help and of course their families. So WROL, why would the hired help not just kill off all the investors and keep the place just for themselves? They are already doing the work and money now means nothing, so why not just take over and run the place.

You survive in the SHTF times by being off the beaten path, not by lighting neon signs. You locate far from anybody and keep it small and restricted to just family. You don't run farm equipment when all around you people are looking for draft animal. You either blend in or you disappear (fade out of sight) but you do not stand out. That is the bullseye thing. Logistic again. You can't store enough food to feed 25 families, plus the hired help and their families and the animal for any length of time. So you will have to expose your group to open field harvesting and my nasty sniper tactics. People in general are not too far above the animals. you got food and they don't -- Target. You have power and they are burning candles -- Target. You have fuel and they are burning cow chips --- Target. You have been given some real good advice about starting small and learning about prepping and how to survive in a SHTF / WROL world. I suggest you take it. I seriously doubt you have the money and investors for this huge endeavor but it is doomed because you do not understand what a SHTF event is really going to look like or be like. Every contractor you hire is going to know about and tell everybody they know about the crazy rich outsider folks (you just got dehumanized to the locals) building this self reliant place. When the power goes out, where do you think the locals will be headed? There are so many concepts and details you have not considered. As for if I had to live there, I would gather my family, load up as much as possible and get the hell out before it collapsed. There is no possible way for this setup to survive post SHTF. Too big, too noisy, too expensive, too vulnerable, too visible, and too poorly planned.
 
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Think about multiple small raised box gardens or hidden hydroponics gardens. Look at smaller scale hidden structures. Less people that are more bonded together.
 
why try to maintain a modern farm? post SHTF everything will be different, supplies of everything will be run down, where will you get spare parts for your tractors and equipment? you say gas will naturally flow? from where, all fuel has to be processed and post SHTF its unlikely any processing plant will be functioning. without electricity there will be no manufacturing .
post SHTF you have to think differently, think smaller, think outside the box.
 
Why are you guys worried about how much it’s going to cost me? If the numbers didn’t work we wouldn’t be haveing this conversation.
Yes the farm equipment would still work even after an emp. We would use tractors that run off magnetos same goes for vehicles. The gas flows naturally so we would have fuel. we could sustain a modern farm.
Ok instead of me being asked a lot of broad questions going everywhere let’s assume I have the ranch infrastructure worked out.
I’ll paint a picture...
Say it’s a 25 family or 100 person community. Around 25 small houses inside a walled section appx 10 acres.
We dedicate 100 acres to grow crops. Deer livestock, along with chickens etc.
The entire property (400 acres)is high fenced.
Yes some people live there full time if they choose. Others have the option to drive or fly in to the town airport via their (private plane). I understand that’s not optimal.
Let’s assume the property is perfectly square.
I understand you guys are firmly against this concept but if you had to live here what steps would you take to protect it?
Brother You can’t be serious when saying you would or anyone else would shoot the farmers to steal crops. The other 100 people would notice and kill you. Any reasonable person would just sneak in and out at night and take what they need.
The whole point in having a large community is to discourage people like that. You would probably see that scenario play out in small groups .
I guess I'm just a little confused on who all is supposed to be involved in this venture and how they are going to end up at the right place when SHTF, and how you are going to enforce the rules and contracts that will be necessary to make the place run. Long distances will be extremely difficult or impossible to travel after SHTF. The more people are involved, the more difficult it becomes to manage. And the kind of people who can afford to buy into this fantasy are not likely to be willing or able to actually perform the labor required to make it a success.
 
I have a different mindset than most here. I’ve actually always thought it was a good idea to be in a group. You said people are assets, and I couldn’t agree more. You can accomplish so much more collectively than you can alone. A lot of the objections brought up are valid points to consider and should be thought out for the best solution available, but with planning and effort I think a community is a smart idea. Security alone is a huge weakness for a small family group. Having numbers to rotate people for patrols and watch would make it a lot less easy to attack. I think most of the negative points brought up are going to be the same for small groups as it is for a larger one. The larger one has more resources and manpower to deal with issues though. Overall I feel the benefits of being in a community outweigh the risks of being on your own. I think a religious free, democratic run group would have a lot of potential. No neegan in charge, no Jim’s passing out coolaid, but one where the group makes decisions. One other thing I believe is solar is a better power option. It is silent and has less moving parts, simpler is more reliable. As far as not producing after dark, well, without cable tv and the internet, nighttime would quickly revert back to time for snuggling and sleeping.
 

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