Best defenses for homestead?

[OldCoot]

very few people , excluding preppers, live in the real world anyway, give it a month or two and most will be dying or dead, from starvation, dehydration, heat exhaustion in the summer, hyperthermia in the winter, disease at any time of the year once the mains go off, and violence from others especially in urban areas.
if they haven't put back supplies they aren't going to make it...period.

Agree completely but putting back supplies is only one small part of survival during such a crisis. My experience with many preppers is that they think as long as they have food, water & their guns, they are good to go. They think in terms of fighting off attackers but what of the stealthy hunter who waits for you to come out of your castle and takes you down with a 300 yd shot? That stealthy hunter just might be your neighbor. That is why I firmly believe on a rural homestead, one has to greatly extend the guarded perimeter and will need friends to do so. One will need a mixture of friends with varied skills... especially medical professionals.

 

[bigpaul]

agreed, storing food is only part of it, and stored food should be used to supplement fresh food not replace it, but the major part of prepping/survival is skills and knowledge which will outlast any stored food stockpile.
I don't live in the US so my experience may be different to yours, in my country people don't have any skills and knowledge apart from those which they use in their paid employment, our population is 80% urban based and is 4 generations removed from the land and has little or no knowledge of where their food comes from or how it is produced, once the imports stop and the power goes off they will be stuffed, the only food is in the supermarkets and little is kept in peoples houses, about 3 days worth about the same that is kept in the stores. so about 6 days will see them out of food.

 

[OldCoot]

I don't live in the US so my experience may be different to yours, in my country people don't have any skills and knowledge apart from those which they use in their paid employment, our population is 80% urban based and is 4 generations removed from the land and has little or no knowledge of where their food comes from or how it is produced, once the imports stop and the power goes off they will be stuffed, the only food is in the supermarkets and little is kept in peoples houses, about 3 days worth about the same that is kept in the stores.

Sadly, much of the US is the same. But rural Mississippi folk are generally poor, hard workers used to spending time outside. Many have gardens & farm animals. Many are avid hunters & fishermen. The term redneck applies to us as it is a person that is tanned on the back of their neck from working in the sun.

 

[bigpaul]

yes, I understand the term redneck, I spent most of my time outdoors as I was a self employed gardener for many years, i'm now retired.

 

[Psalm7]

To beat the Hunter You have to be a better Hunter .

 

[tmttactical]

This topic is one of my favorite discussion. Old Coot has a solid plan for his environment. Typical rural environments are not defensible. So the need for a community self defense force is required to survive. Open field ranching and farming provides for prime sniper targets. Hungry neighbors will resort to attacking those with perceived food supplies. Where I disagree with Old Coot is that people are social animals, they are not social, but are self serving animals. The key for a community self defense process is the leadership. If the group can be assembled and controlled then it is a viable situation. If the self serving folks gain control, then is is more threat than deliverance. When one person or group decide they should get more of the bounty or feel they are better qualified to lead, then major problem will arise. Being the person with the most supplies can make you the leader or the target.

In my mind, the best possible solution is to be completely off the beaten track and to have built a homestead designed from the beginning for a SHIT event. Blow grade green houses and below grade rabbit warren. Concealed and protected water storage tanks. Fire proof homes, with very limited visible entry points. Below ground irrigation and pump systems. Just a few items needed to limit exposure to hostiles. There also a large number of methods to detect intruders and even deal with them. One of the major key factors is to be out of sight and stay out of mind of others. While my concept maybe the best scenario, it is not practical for most folks that have already located to their desired homesteads. Bottom line, we each will have to plan for what and where we are and then do the best we can.

 

[bigpaul]

given that most people will be out of food within a week and getting weaker and weaker as each day passes, 3 weeks will see them either already dead or passed the point of no return, its the first month following no resupply to the stores that we have to be concerned about.

 

[brandx]

nothing strikes fear into a punk quicker than the sound of a pump action shotgun being cycled[/QUOT

IMO, the best defense for a homestead is location and stealth. During an extended crisis, you don't want to be along any evacuation route from the cities. But since I expect there will still be gangs roaming about, that is where stealth comes into play. To me, the critical time will be a few weeks following the event. During that time I will have no fires and will run no generators. Luckily, I live a mile off a rural road on the way to nowhere in Mississippi. I also have solar resources.

But if & when it comes time for fighting, then fight I will. I'm not leaving my farmstead. No bug out location for me. My farm is my Alamo. I will either live or die there. But I think many preppers don't really consider who they will have to fight. They think of roaming gangs but what about your neighbors? If you are properly prepared and they aren't, are you prepared to watch them starve while you eat well? You prepared to kill a neighbor kid trying to get food to eat? How are you going to keep your deer hunting neighbor from taking you out when you walk about your property? These are a few of the questions my adult son asked me, knowing I was prepping for our family.

So being the prepper I am, I took his questions to heart. I decided I could not watch folks I know starve while we ate. I decided I could never be safe if a neighbor was hungry & knew we had food. So to me the logical conclusion, if I REALLY wanted my homestead to be safe, was to build a small community of our neighbors on our rural lane. Our lane is somewhat isolated from other folks nearby and consists of 10 or so families. Two neighbors have medium sized farming & cattle operations. One neighbor down the lane is a dentist and another two neighbors are nurses. The folks closest to my house are the most redneck of rednecks. They don't farm or garden but are always hunting and fishing. Point being, I determined I'd rather have these folks as companions rather than enemies. I'd rather they be a resource for survival as opposed to a danger.

So at that point, my prepping style changed. As opposed to having a few years supply of resources for just my family, I switched my thinking over to having enough food for all these neighbors to survive short term... until we could ramp up food production. Thankfully, here in north Mississippi, we have very long growing seasons, especially if one grows the spring & fall cool weather crops. In my mind I figured the worst case scenario was the crisis starting at the end of the growing season, say late November, where we would have to largely live off of stores. So I set a goal of storing 150 lbs of long term food per person and immediately started doing so. Took me a couple of years but I reached my goal.

So my preferred method of protecting my homestead will be to communicate with my neighbors after they realize the extent of the crisis. My goal is to use my food/seed stores to provide hope and a plan for us to build a small community for self defense and for self reliance. As a group, I figure we can also protect and manage our resources, including abundant wild game, ponds & lakes stocked with fish, farm equipment, herds of cattle, chickens & plenty of land.

I personally don't think one can survive an extended crisis alone. Humans are social animals... always have been, always will be. My biggest chore as a prepper during such times will be as a manager. To communicate a plan & to communicate that if we work together we have hope.

Sounds good. Remember the more people you have...……. then they will be wanting to bring in their relatives, etc. As they couldn't stand to see THEM starve either. Let's face it, if it happens we can have a plan but in the end we all will have to wing it.

 

[brandx]

given that most people will be out of food within a week and getting weaker and weaker as each day passes, 3 weeks will see them either already dead or passed the point of no return, its the first month following no resupply to the stores that we have to be concerned about.

A lot of the already weak ones, either weak bodied or weak minded will be waiting on someone to help them instead of being proactive.

 

[brandx]

agreed, storing food is only part of it, and stored food should be used to supplement fresh food not replace it, but the major part of prepping/survival is skills and knowledge which will outlast any stored food stockpile.
I don't live in the US so my experience may be different to yours, in my country people don't have any skills and knowledge apart from those which they use in their paid employment, our population is 80% urban based and is 4 generations removed from the land and has little or no knowledge of where their food comes from or how it is produced, once the imports stop and the power goes off they will be stuffed, the only food is in the supermarkets and little is kept in peoples houses, about 3 days worth about the same that is kept in the stores. so about 6 days will see them out of food.

So much for my 600lb life. LOL

 

[brandx]

This topic is one of my favorite discussion. Old Coot has a solid plan for his environment. Typical rural environments are not defensible. So the need for a community self defense force is required to survive. Open field ranching and farming provides for prime sniper targets. Hungry neighbors will resort to attacking those with perceived food supplies. Where I disagree with Old Coot is that people are social animals, they are not social, but are self serving animals. The key for a community self defense process is the leadership. If the group can be assembled and controlled then it is a viable situation. If the self serving folks gain control, then is is more threat than deliverance. When one person or group decide they should get more of the bounty or feel they are better qualified to lead, then major problem will arise. Being the person with the most supplies can make you the leader or the target.

In my mind, the best possible solution is to be completely off the beaten track and to have built a homestead designed from the beginning for a SHIT event. Blow grade green houses and below grade rabbit warren. Concealed and protected water storage tanks. Fire proof homes, with very limited visible entry points. Below ground irrigation and pump systems. Just a few items needed to limit exposure to hostiles. There also a large number of methods to detect intruders and even deal with them. One of the major key factors is to be out of sight and stay out of mind of others. While my concept maybe the best scenario, it is not practical for most folks that have already located to their desired homesteads. Bottom line, we each will have to plan for what and where we are and then do th best we can.

Sure, if I had a million, or maybe a few hundred thousand, or perhaps, well forget it. I don't even have two hundred bucks to my name, so I guess I'm dead or will have to kill off a rich neighbor??? See what I mean?

 

[OldCoot]

Sounds good. Remember the more people you have...……. then they will be wanting to bring in their relatives, etc. As they couldn't stand to see THEM starve either. Let's face it, if it happens we can have a plan but in the end we all will have to wing it.

A plan is nothing but a plan, but at least it is a start as opposed to just winging it. If you note, I stated I would inform the neighbors and start building the group after the event. If folks are still driving around where they can be brought in, then it will be too early to start the group. I will not be building a group unless this is a major long term event and things have settled down... meaning folks not driving all over the place & are hunkered down.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Typical rural environments are not defensible. So the need for a community self defense force is required to survive. Open field ranching and farming provides for prime sniper targets. [\QUOTE]


Why aren't they defensible? Are we just standing around in the field with our thumbs up our butts? Thousand yard shots aren't that easy, after hiking out to the country, crawling around in the dirt, dragging your shit through brambles... Historically, where have snipers operated, what equipment did they use to get good results, what knowledge does it require to make reliable long distance shots... "Sniping" vs "long range interdiction". Someone can get sniped from a block away, they aren't the same. Most people aren't good long distance shots (I admit I'm not) so they will want to be where shots can be kept close, IMO.

Completely off the beaten track, but not rural because then you are a sniper target. Could you clarify that? To me, rural is no town, no groups of houses, gravel roads, neighbors a few miles away.

 

[DrHenley]

I've cooked and eaten field corn. Soybeans too, straight from the combine. Yeah, they aren't that appetizing, but they will stave off hunger.

You can use an old Indian trick with field corn - soak it in lye and make hominy. It's more nutritious prepared that way anyhow.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

I am multi-failimg at multi quotes, lol. Prepare for confusion.

 

[OldCoot]

Completely off the beaten track, but not rural because then you are a sniper target. Could you clarify that? To me, rural is no town, no groups of houses, gravel roads, neighbors a few miles away.

Well there is rural, then there is isolated. I live down a one way country lane with 10 or so homes on it... including some farms. So there is somewhat of a grouping of homes.

Anyway, people will figure out fast that most farms don't actually have more food than the average suburban home. It's bins of feild corn and soybeans. Feel free to take as much as you want post SHTF, bon appetit!

Ain't that the truth. On top of that, how many folks are accustomed to walking dozens of miles out in the country with no clean water to drink? I feel most evacuees will stop off in the small towns outside the cities, assuming the towns let them in. I personally believe the suburban towns will quickly stop all folks fleeing the city, as happened in New Orleans after a hurricane. Last thing they want is to be overrun. I'll bet you these towns know where to set up roadblocks, such as on bridges over creeks & rivers.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Let's just assume some stuff from urbanprep is in here, he will know what I'm referencing.

Leaders. What makes a good leader? Success? Keeping his people fed? Being a great guy, inspirational? What does the trick, in your mind?

Holy cow, paint must be getting to me! I haven't had a drop to drink. I'll struggle through this!

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Ok, so isolated would be like a mountain top, or way, way out there.

I think most people think other people can walk to wherever they are, because they think THEY could walk somewhere.

Town is 5 miles from me. Women, children, the elderly, they can make that walk. No doubt. But why would they? If they could get their hands on a Jersey, what then? Cut off hunks and gobble on the spot?

They will, most of them, stay right there. Where it's warm, and they have walls, and blankets, and furniture to burn, without all the work of walking, and cutting wood with the axe or saw they don't have. They'll loot Walmart first thing, then each other, then form packs to loot the other packs, then the bad asses that are left will make it out to me. By which time, there will be seven or eight armed guys, at least, who can shoot, if not do any fancy infantry tactical stuff.

I wouldn't despair, post SHTF. It's not the five mile walk to reach me, it's the 2 weeks before they have to make that walk that I'm counting on.

 

[tmttactical]

If SHTF. I would most certainly prefer to be in a remote rural setting. Yes the majority of the city folks will most likely sit and wait for help until it is too late. The thugs will pillage until they are either killed off or run out of supplies. Then the survivors will be forced to move out into the surrounding country side. Small towns will be forced to block-aid roads and entrance routes. Vary small groups and individuals will then be forced to venture into the surrounding county sides in search of game and victims. Homesteads isolated from neighbors will be a prime target. Back in the old west, the Indians always attacked the isolated farmer /ranchers first, as they were the easiest targets. That is what will happen to some homesteads but certainly not all homesteads. As for sniping, I think some confuse the term with long distance or extreme range shooting. A person laying in the brush 300 yards away is difficult to spot. A 300 yard shot is not that difficult. Having to tend to crops and critters out in the open could provide an evil doer a target. Granted the location I select to build my homestead is on top of a mountain and will be the highest point for several miles. All required food will be grown / raised in below grade greenhouses and rabbit warren. No targets of opportunity will be presented once the SHTF. Yes this build will be a bit more expensive to build but will stand the test of time for many generation. Like the Doctor's house in Palm Beach, 15 to 20 percent more cost but much safer than conventional homesteads. NOTE: I am not disparaging anybodies plan to deal with a long term SHTF event. We are all limited to our financial and family requirements. Also note note no plan is fool proof. Example: A friend from another forum built a multi-million dollar "Retreat" in an isolated valley on top of a mountain. Supplies and material were brought in by helicopter. The problem arose when a family of Native American Indians decided to return to the "OLD" ways of living and discovered this "Retreat". Now the security of being isolated has been breached and the valley is not defend-able without several additional millions. No plan is perfect. We do what we can and then hope it really does not happen. Not looking forward to a major SHTF but do try an plan as best I can.

 

[Skullcrusher]

Aside from wireless trail cams and motion detectors, does anyone have experience with other defensive applications?

Lots of ammo, guns, good aim, large cache of provisions, I use concrete barriers around my property in various places. Motion detection lights, and cameras, and have several manners to which i and my family can come up to defend our homestead, and property. I live in a very rural area with 10 acres. This is the small property in which my wife and i own.