Are we maturing as prepper?

Doomsday Prepper Forums

Help Support Doomsday Prepper Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
@Urbanprep Is that the mature prepping viewpoint?

Seriously. Is it? What your describing is survival of the fittest.


At some point in human history, people's daily lives were exactly what we imagine the world to be after a collapse.

Then societies formed. I don't see how that happens without accepting some responsibility for the welfare of your fellow man.

Society today is what it is. Someone may have a smartphone, unpaid college debt, a precarious car loan, a bad marriage, all sorts of things. They may think everything will be fine, and ignore what you (and I, by the way) see as warning signs. That doesn't mean they won't survive.

I think you're making a few mistakes here, Urban.

I dont see anyone saying you should take care of anyone but yourself, post SHTF. They are saying they would.

And you don't give people enough credit. People really do rally together in bad times.

And if those bad times were never going to end? I think people would become a bunch of mammoth hunting badasses again pretty quick.

Take somene who has never worked a day in his life, never cooked a meal, never hunted, never learned a single survival skill.. drop him off naked in the woods, and I think he eats worms, and grass, and drinks puddle water and shivers at night and probably dies, but IF he lives he's probably more of a survivor than me with my preps.

Honestly, it takes all kinds. It takes hardcore cruelty (let the stupid ones die) and naive kindness (let's all be terrific). I don't think either group makes it without the other.

Ying and Yang, Baby!
 
First why should anybody help feed somebody else? Please NOTE: I am not advocating attacking those that are unprepared (no Marauding is suggested), I am just advocating leaving them to their own devises.
Lots of reasons and I'll leave off any discussion about goodness or religious beliefs/biblical mandates, so here are some. I do so because I refuse to become an animal & leave my neighbors to their own devices... which is a rather nice way of saying leaving them to starve while you prosper. But then you have to consider reality. So say you are prepared and your neighbors are starving. You plan on leaving them alone to starve quietly. Is that realistic? You think they will starve without trying to survive themselves? Nope. You now have a close in threat. What is to stop them from taking you and/or yours out when you are about? See? Now it has shifted from leaving them to their own devices to killing them preemptively to protect yourself. Long story short, the folks around you can become a threat or an ally. None of my neighbors know I'm a prepper and that I prep for them. But if we have a major, long term crisis then those that are still around once the shock settles in will be invited to work together as a community... where that we work together as opposed to fighting against. Understand Rambo is fictional and conflict will cause death and injury for all. My goal as a prepper is to do everything possible to limit conflict.

As well, I see my neighbors as a resource. Several of mine are farmers with lots of equipment and cattle herds. We have a dentist down the lane a bit plus two households include nurses. My closest neighbor family are true rednecks who spend all free time hunting. Other folks can be used as security and or farming help. I understand there most certainly will still be issues but I expect MUCH less than if I left them to their own devices.
 
@Squirtgunsquirter

Ah, the debate starts. First name one program of welfare for our fellow man that has helped move the country ahead. Welfare for our fellow man has allowed the weak to breed and will eventually cause the downfall of our nation, if not the entire world. When I say weak I am referring to the weak of mind (not retardation but thought process) and those that fail to be responsible for themselves.

Yes societies did form but it was not for the benefit of the weak, it was for the benefit of those in power and for commerce, to maintain their power. Financial growth and the desire to improve a person's position and status in life, those were the motivators in life and the development in society. People do rally together but not to protect the weak but to protect themselves. Castles were not built to protect the beggars, they were built to protect the land owners, merchants, business owners and any farmers, that could get to the fort before the gates were closed. The growth of American had nothing to do with protecting the underprivileged or the unprepared. It had everything to do with people risking all to advance in life. Immigrants paid their way over here (one way or another) and then succeeded or failed but the milk of human kindness was certainly not a major contributing factor.

Yes communities will bind together after the first phase of a major SHTF event but watch to see how fast the non-contributing or lazy persons are removed (welfare will not exist). During the first phase, I will certainly not be offering any helping hands. My supplies will be strictly for my families. As for joining any group in the future, that wold depend on weather it benefits my family. Selfish, you bet, but who has a better plan that does not rely on the other's playing nice.

Open for rebuttal!!!
 
Yes societies did form but it was not for the benefit of the weak, it was for the benefit of those in power and for commerce, to maintain their power.
You seem to associate all who fail to prep as weak. I don't see the connection. I simply see the reason is that our country has been so stable for so long, and isolated from world wars, that most folks just assume things will always be great and if not, someone will help. That is not weakness... it is shortsightedness. A shortsighted person can still stand up and be strong, given an opportunity... once they see the light.

And don't associate helping neighbors thru the crisis as welfare. All will have to work and contribute... nothing like what our government today allows.
 
During the first phase, I will certainly not be offering any helping hands. My supplies will be strictly for my families. As for joining any group in the future, that wold depend on weather it benefits my family. Selfish, you bet, but who has a better plan that does not rely on the other's playing nice.
Explain how you will deal with neighbors during the first phase. You think it will be simple and with no danger? You plan on living in a deep hole and never walking about? Never hunting or gardening? Never scouting about to see what dangers are approaching?
 
Lol.

Welfare? I'm not a fan. I agree, welfare has allowed a culture to form around it, and that was a mistake.

But that's NOW stuff. It may contribute to the weak mindedness that you see in society, and anticipate will still be around post SHTF, but one good whack from a big rock and welfare will be a thing of the distant past. Heck, the economy might get rid of welfare and we will all wish welfare was still something the country was capable of providing.

I think some here would like to see better. Not some Utopia, that's horseshit.

It's more about not going it alone. No one's advocating just handing out all your prepping supplies to every starving nimrod that stumbles up the drive.

Do you hunt? Sitting in that stand, for hours, peeing in a bottle OH! Was that a deer?... Nope. Just the wind.

Happens a lot. I don't go kill a deer every time. Or even catch a fish every time. But if 20 people go hunting? Or fishing?

You don't give people food, you loan them a fishing pole. Or you come till their garden. Or give them a box of .22 rounds, in return for a portion of what they hunt with it.

Granted it takes some trust in your fellow man, that while you are tilling the garden the children don't come tackle you off the tractor and eat you alive then suck the marrow from your old ### bones.

You can't help everyone, but helping someone who can then help you seems like a good idea, and not everyone is looking to screw over the next guy for a can of condensed milk.

I agree with everything you said, about society, about your choices.

But I agree with oldcoot as well. Let's not be animals, or filthy savages. That's a mess. We can be better, smarter, pass on a better world to the next generation.

That's not weakness, IMO. We should be wise elders, not that crazy guy that will shoot you if if he thinks you might catch a fish in "his" river.

That's where that thinking leads. You know? "I'm so much better, I prepared for this, these weak minded fools don't deserve to live, they can't really appreciate that deer as much as I would, what use are they? Better if I just kill them, cleanse the gene pool"...

That's ugly thinking. I'm NOT saying you are there, but I think that's how bad things start.

Gotta be careful, keep the faith, or it's a dark road ahead.
 
@OldCoot

Ah now to turn the situation around. You wait until the dust settles and then inform your neighbors that you have enough food and supplies for all. Now you have just painted a target on your backside. Before, as you stated, your neighbors may not have known of your supplies (my plan of action) but you just invited them to come get yours. Your plan assumes you know your neighbors and that they will react like you predict. Now what happens when a neighbor or two decide they should be in of all these supplies. It is you who will not know who is ally and who is threat. My plan does not require me to divulge my preps or the amount of my preps. You are assuming that your neighbors are going to act rationally and not panic or decide now is the time to become the new Warlord. As for watching my neighbors starve, why would I be checking them out. I will be locked down, and will keep to myself. I will not be venturing all about. If the neighbors have more than me, supper, if they have less, not my problem. You believe that your neighbors are good folks but I am also willing to bet you know of some in your area that are not good folks. Those same bad folks are going to learn you are very well stocked. Now what is the plan? Preemptive strike on these bad folks or hope they will not come after you? Can't put the cat bag into the bag. In my plan we never let the cat out of the bag.

Again, I am not advocating violence on my neighbors but I am certainly not willing to place my family at risk, just based on my belief the neighbors are good folks. For every solid humanitarian story you can relate, I can relate a horror story. For every kind hearted soul out there, a nut case is waiting to be released. The problem is, during a major SHTF event, we will not know how people are going to react. My choice is to maintain my (our family) distance from these people (neighbors or not) and wait until the rule of law returns.

Now I really don't expect too many to side with this plan or at least not on a public forum . When planning for future events, I feel you should look at all the potential action plans, not just the feel good plans. I have to wonder what thoughts where going through the missionaries minds, as the cannibals were preparing to eat them.
 
Explain how you will deal with neighbors during the first phase. You think it will be simple and with no danger? You plan on living in a deep hole and never walking about? Never hunting or gardening? Never scouting about to see what dangers are approaching?


Okay, I am loving the replies, it does force me to put on my thinking cap and re-evaluate my thought process. This will be a 2-for (oldcoot and SGS) So Oldcoot first. if my neighbors did not prep, they will not be around to worry about by the time I have to venture forth. Now I did not say it would be simple or not dangerous. First of all any SHTF event by it's very nature is dangerous. Simple to limit danger, I will not venture out until the first Phase of die off is completed. If I am still in my urban environment, that is will only take about two weeks, no water (desert climate) and no stores to restock. Yes there will be looting and so forth but again, there is no advantage to letting my neighbors know I have food and water stored. If I am in my BOL , then I will not have any neighbors around to be visiting, Again desert climate, so nobody wondering out in the boondocks, not even to hunt. No farmers close by either. That location is not your typical farming land and all my food will be grown in below grade green house or appear to be natural local plants. Again no reason for folks to come visiting. As for exposure to raiding parties, I have also planned for that nasty event, but yes there would be an element of danger. The fewer people that know of the location the fewer I might have to contend with.

okay now for SGS, There are separate phases to a SHTF event. During phase one, the major die off is going to occur and the major violence will also occur. Those that survive on their own, will be the ones that will attempt the rebuild, As always there will be the ones that Mr. Murphy, for what ever reason has spared, who could not find their own butt, while sitting on the toilet.

Since when has it been a particular trait of humans to not abandon the weak. Does the trail of tears bring any humanitarian traits to mind? Humans have been abandoning the weak and old for centuries but they were still considered humans. As for after a SHTF event, the old and weak will have perished during the die off. Only the strong or Mr. Murhpy's litter will be left. So I fail to see the comparisons or concern for that slippery slope into the dark. As for sharing ammo, never going to happen, I will trade it of something the family needs. As stated several times, not advocation violence against a neighbor but will not support a neighbor either. Now mutual trade / barter or maybe a mutual Aid agreement, but that is not a feel good situation. It is strictly what is good or the family and the other party. If a group cannot defend them selves, then why would I want to jeopardize my family for them. If a group can and will defend, then they might be a potential ally. That is the whole point, there has to be a value (then and there -- not some future value) for the family or there is no reason to risk any interaction.

I do not worry about the goodness in myself, I just make sure I don't cause an evil. Minding my own business is not evil, Taking from others is an evil. If others want to interact with others and offer free support, that is their business. I will choose to avoid as much interaction with others as possible. I will not ask others for a handout and I will not offer any handouts. Any form of interaction will be limited to the last phase of the SHTF--- the rebuilding phase --- and that will be limited to commerce.
 
As for watching my neighbors starve, why would I be checking them out. I will be locked down, and will keep to myself. I will not be venturing all about.
You must have some mighty fine locks. :)

Depending on the situation, locking down might be the best action. Not everyone lives out in the country like I do. But I suggest you try it out to determine how feasible your plan really is. Can you really stay locked down for weeks or months without ever coming out? You have the water and sanitation for such a long period? Can you psychologically handle it? Can everyone in your family handle it? If not, your plan is in the crapper. Have you every tried doing as you plan to survive? What happens if someone gets sick? You going to be cooking or heating the place during this extended period. Starving neighbors will smell your activities. Just saying, staying stealthy in an urban environment for weeks could be rather hard.

As far as dealing with neighbors, almost all mine are good, hard working country folk. During a crisis, I would not notify all of my plans/resources at once but would start with my closest friends. I would get them on board first and then slowly add additional neighbors. I would start with my closest hunting neighbor and the farmers. They have the most resources and capabilities.
 
Simple to limit danger, I will not venture out until the first Phase of die off is completed. If I am still in my urban environment, that is will only take about two weeks, no water (desert climate) and no stores to restock.
Guess it depends on what you mean by first phase. Yes there will be a die off in two weeks if all utilities are gone but what do you do if some are still operational? Do y'all not have swimming pools all over in your desert urban environment. No ponds, lakes or golf course water hazards in your locale? Also, many bad folks will still be around for a long time, such as those that take over the large stores. Just saying, I think 2 weeks is a bit optimistic.
 
Honestly, I had a totally different mindset when I lived in the city.

Urban life gave me a dim view of my fellow humans.

Out here? If the power went out, I guarantee it wouldn't be long before Junior walked over, to check on us and see what we had planned.

I have no weird dreams of rebuilding society, no deep longing to help my fellow man, but just me and a few other guys hunkered down in the basement eating pasta and canned veggies? No thanks.

Obviously, external events could change my thinking. The next Spanish Flu... Then, no. We stay put.

But, we survived the Spanish Flu. Humans are survivors. I find it hard to believe that 90% of humanity would just go batshit crazy and then croak, just because we had no electricity.

No electricity would just be the new normal. Can't work til the sun comes up. Sure wish they still made diesel fuel so the combine would run. I'll just hitch this cow to a bent fencepost instead, and drag it across the field before I call it a night and head back home to put another baby in the old lady.

That's humans. This crybaby snowflake social media epic butthurt stuff, that's a phase. Well grow out of it.
 
@OldCoot

Yes I do have some very fine locks. I also have plenty of firepower, if absolutely needed. I am a retired engineer, I can and will have some very nasty surprised for invaders during a SHTF event. I have already planned about the food/ cooking /sanitation issues. Battery powered roof vent fan to draw out any food cooking smells (ramen and many other soups do not broadcast smells). A SHTF event is completely different, as far as meals and aroma. Sanitation -- the old saying shit rolls down hill. My location is a high point, the sewer system will not back up into my place. Garbage will consist of food wrapper and will be burned in an indoor (BBQ Style) grill. Wet wipes for hygiene (not perfect but workable). The lock down / isolation is not a problem. I only leave the house 2 or 3 times a month as it is now. I did practice isolation, spent nine months testing out my theory (house sitting for son while he was deployed out to sea). The basic idea is not to have to defend, just stay out of sight until the rest depart, one way or the other. In an urban desert climate, the die off will start very quickly. People will not know about water sources, because they are city folks and expect to get it from the faucet. These city folks will blow though their water supply in just a few days and then it is just a matter of time. My biggest concern is going to be disease. Too many dead bodies laying around. That is going to be bad. Still working on the problem.

Now since I am a terrible judge of character, I have chosen to stay isolated. You (OldCoot) probably do know your neighbors and have spent years if not decades with them. I do not and will not know my neighbors, so my plan is isolation. During normal times you can afford to make a mistake about somebodies nature but during and after a SHTF, that is not going to be luxury most can afford to make.

Even with the slow dissemination on the amount of your stores /supplies, that information is going to get out. You are talking very long term rebuilding and there is going to be those that decide if you have enough for ten years (for all), then if they stole / took it, they would have enough for 50 years. I admire your idea and the good will towards others but I don't admire the risk you are taking. If you could accomplish your goal without divulging your stockpiles and your involvement, than I would say go for it. Old WW II poster, Loose lips sink ships. That will apply to your stock pile. I would love you for a neighbor, because I doubt you would need to turn rogue but I would not care as we would not be meeting each other. I would leave you alone and you would most likely not give me a thought. Out of sight, out of mind. Now if you could set up a stash at the church and have a way to replenish it , without your involvement being known, then you have a workable plan. Nothing ventured - noting gained is the wrong concept for SHTF. Noting ventured - is noting lost, for a SHTF event.

The floor is open for other opinions too. Loving the debate. We got good and smart folks here, jump in.
 
Even with the slow dissemination on the amount of your stores /supplies, that information is going to get out. You are talking very long term rebuilding and there is going to be those that decide if you have enough for ten years (for all), then if they stole / took it, they would have enough for 50 years.
My last comments. City folk just don't get it. :) Long term survival is not about stores lasting years. It is about stores lasting short term until you can be self sufficient. In my case, I plan on tons of stores being used up in months in a worst case scenario where the event occurs at the end of the growing season. Key to survival after a SHTF event is working together where you sustainably produce your own food & resources and cooperate for self defense. Just as mankind has done for eons. If you don't have the skills, resources and the PEOPLE to rebuild... what is the point?

After a crisis, which our species has endured many, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. We just need to do what we have always done. Humans are at the top of the food chain due to their intelligence and social skills. We work together better than any other species. Lone wolves don't rebound and rebuild... communities do.
 
Yes , I do get it, that is why I do want to eventually land in the great Arizona outback. Yes you do need growing material for the very long term but you (OLDCOOT) have to survive in the immediate short term.

Yes even in an urban environment, I will be able to survive for the long term. I have already made plans for that eventuality too. Granted it is tough to have a below grade greenhouse in a high rise building but there are ways to handle it. That is one reason I am so interested in all your growing tips and information. No matter where I am, I will need to be able to grow enough to survive on. Now getting rabbits will be harder but it is doable, Getting pigeons will be a bit easier (LOL). The chickens may have to be dropped from the diet, if I am stuck in Urbanville. I have two separate plans for survival -- Rural and Urban. They are as different as night and day. Now I know that many will say urban survival is next to impossible but that is not really the case. Difficult and requires different skill sets but still doable.

The trick to both types of survival is to make it through the first phase. The second phase is no piece of cake but will be less violent. The final phase is will require the ability to not just survive but to actually prosper. Now we may have different concepts of prosper but I will leave that for another debate. Yes you will need enough stores to make it through several growing seasons but again the amount is determined by the number of people to be fed. Old coot wants to make sure his community survives and flourishes, It want to make sure my family survives and flourishes. The size /scale is vastly different but the end goal is the same, survival.

A question was asked, what would be the point of survival, if the rest of the people did not survive? My response -- Could you be happy in Eden, even if it was just with your family? I don't need the rest of the people to survive, I will be content with my families survival. Again I do not wish ill will on others, I will just not be concerned about others.
 
Last edited:
first of all in an emergency my only DUTY is to see me and mine survive, its not to be a resource for others, once you tell others you have supplies you've painted a target on your back.
secondly my supplies are not to last years and years, they are to SUPPLEMENT when I cant get fresh, the season is such there are no plants growing and no animals about, or is just not safe to go outside- the hunker down period. its also to last me until I can get my first harvest in, probably a year maybe 18 months depending on what time of year the event occurred.
 
I think your prepping philosophy is one of the better (and better articulated) I've come across on this site.

Cheers, Kate!

Marry me, Bluejoy.

At gunpoint if necessary.

Unless your a dude. Then, just... Good post.

What a place for a proposal, but I'm not the marrying type, SGS! :D

I'll give some suggestions of gear I use. Might give you a start.

Pressure Canner: All American 21-1/2-quart pressure cooker and canner

Fuelwood Gear: Estwing 16" hatchet, Council Tool felling axe, Fiskars 36" splitting axe & wedge and Bahco 30" bow saw. Of course, living on a farmstead, I have several chainsaws but the above gear is great for a prepper needing tools to harvest wood using hand tools.

Dog: We have 10 rescues from the pound. I prefer mixed breeds as they are healthier. I'd suggest a good working dog such as a lab mix.

Thanks for the tips - I've popped them on The List.

Bow saw, of course - I knew there was a particular type appropriate for this but couldn't remember the name (or even what it looked like)! Definitely want a working dog, something a bit scrappy and on the smaller side and almost certainly from a pound. While I'd love a kennel of wolfhounds and the like, it's a bit out of my budget :D
 
Bow saw, of course - I knew there was a particular type appropriate for this but couldn't remember the name (or even what it looked like)!
I keep 2 bow saws plus lots of extra blades for them. Just took a pic of them in the upper barn, along with some of the other hand tools for harvesting wood.

wood.jpg
 
40396780_440926736429571_2700582986131760004_n.jpg
I'd like to have something similar as this,this one is a camping size,those we had in school ...in the stone age ;) ... if you ask my sons,were bigger and something I'd like to have

You can always make a bucksaw, that's one of the first thing I learned how to make in the boy scouts.
 
you are prolly right Mav,must do some digging in the web...my problem is I want it as nice and pretty looking as I can have and do,
same goes when I do some fishing lures,if I'm not ok with the look/paint,strip it away and do it again..
 

Latest posts

Back
Top