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Funny, I hear far left democrats say the same thing about all republicans..... all I know for sure is with both sides hating so much all it does is ensure things stay messed up and in a stalemate.

Which is the case when one person or group is lieng and another is telling the truth. You need to figure out which it is. Or you can say both are lieing, if its to much trouble to research the truth. The evidence is clearly out there that people claiming to support democrats are doing the vast majority of hating.
 
Which is the case when one person or group is lieng and another is telling the truth. You need to figure out which it is. Or you can say both are lieing, if its to much trouble to research the truth. The evidence is clearly out there that people claiming to support democrats are doing the vast majority of hating.
there is enough hate and distrust on both sides to go around,and it seems to me the really hardcore hate started when Obama got into office,,,,,

this hate is not going to go away anytime soon,,,both sides seem to feed off of it,,,,what we really need is a do over kick them all out and start fresh ,,,fat chance of that ever happening
 
Brent the problem is not Politicians,,,,the providers are the problem they know we need healthcare and are price gouging

I work in a medical office. The problem with a lot of those policies is you have to get a pre authorization for a freaking Kleenex.

You hold on the phone pressing 1 for this 2 for that etc. fax in multiple pages of medical records and auth forms for the simplest of things, then they want to reimburse you at the lowest possible rate.

It’s not worth it by the time you do all of that, and they know it. This way they collect premiums from the insured who is reluctant to use the policy. If the insured does decide to use the policy they know most providers won’t deal with the policy. They win.

Government needs to stay out of health care. Government needs to stay out of most things. Name one government program you admire... Medicare? Medicaid? Social Security? NOPE!

Why would we want to give the government more control to add, rework, or whatever anything?

The high cost come from big pharmaceutical companies. Yet, that’s never the focus of health care reform by the government. Why? Because they are so deep in the government’s pockets.

Instead they focus on putting the burden on the average Joe. The only thing Obama care did was make more money for private insurance companies by requiring us to have to purchase their products.

And Grey Ghost is right, since when is 8K “affordable” for health care?
 
well I am without heath care for a few years,,,the good I was checked out just before being kicked out and I am in good shape,,,,,,,,,,,the bottom line is as a lower income person you should not have to pay thru the nose for health care,,,I can't afford 8k a year for insurance
I don't have coverage either, it is not offered where I work and I have not been able to find another job. I struggle to pay the car and house insurance.
 
To be fair here, Obama tried to get both parties together to make a good plan. The two sides hate each other so much that they couldn’t agree on much, leaving what was passed. The whole system sucks and there is too much money being made for any real improvements to happen. Sorry, the system is broken and corrupt, you can’t blame that on one man. With the continued division and literally hatred being perpetuated nothing will ever get done.

Brent I don't blame Obuma for writing the law, I blame him for going on national television and lying. Remember "you can keep you plan if you like it" OR "you can keep your doctor". Out right lies. That is what I blame Obuma for. The Obuma plan was and is a complete disaster.
 
The other problem is that they DRASTICALLY underestimated the cost of it, and the scope, and completely screwed up nearly every aspect of the implementation of it. Even the website failed. This is why many, myself included, believe it really can't be "fixed", it needs to be completely revamped and redone. It's like trying to "fix" a car with 300,000 miles on it.
 
I disagree, I think obama genuinely wanted a good plan and had no hidden agenda. The lobbyist and republicans intentionally picked at it until it wasn’t any good anymore. It all goes back to both sides willing to sabotage anything the other side does. Just think if we all worked together for the better of the country what could be accomplished.
 
I disagree, I think obama genuinely wanted a good plan and had no hidden agenda. The lobbyist and republicans intentionally picked at it until it wasn’t any good anymore. It all goes back to both sides willing to sabotage anything the other side does. Just think if we all worked together for the better of the country what could be accomplished.

Your love for Obama is disturbing....
 
Seriously, I think he had good intentions. I certainly don’t agree with all his ideas, like that stimulus crap. I also don’t think celebrating transgenders like they are hero’s or something. Sure, acceptance and not harming anyone, but celebrating? As far as the environment goes he was a great advocate. I also respect how he worked with other world leaders, and the fact that he had a lot more class than ‘he who’s name we shouldn’t mention’... :rolleyes:
 
I disagree, I think obama genuinely wanted a good plan and had no hidden agenda.
“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program… A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately"
Barak Obama, 2003
What are not legitimate concerns are those being put forward claiming a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. I’ll be honest. There are countries where a single-payer system may be working. But I believe — and I’ve even taken some flak from members of my own party for this belief — that it is important for us to build on our traditions here in the United States. So, when you hear the naysayers claim that I’m trying to bring about government-run health care, know this – they are not telling the truth.
Barak Obama, 2009
 
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I've worked in healthcare for almost 30 years, and I wish I had something constructive to offer.

Obamacare seemed like something that was good in theory, but like so many things in medicine...a failure in practice.

I don't believe in socialized medicine as a total concept, but that doesn't mean that certian specific things can't be socialized.

Cuba, for example, has--with its poor infrastructure and poor people and Communist ideals--has completely eliminated neonatal transmission of syphillis. Maybe there were policies that are inconsistant with our democratic ideals, but eliminating neonatal syphillis is a hell of an accomplishment and, as a paramedic, I tend to think in practical terms over theory.

And yes, the World Health Organization has confirmed Cuba's claims.

Healthcare in the U.S. is so expensive because--in part--of lawyers. Malpractice is a big business, and malpractice insurance rates for physicians and institutions are astronomically high, and the expense is passed onto the consumer.

If anyone is a fan of the original Star Trek television series, I would like to point out the episode with the kids from Triacus who's parents were killed by a non-coporeal alien who materialized and had the kids chant and shake their fists to incite the crew to violence (episode 59, "And The Children Shall Lead").

This non-coporeal alien was played by an actor named Melvin Belli, who was also an accomplished attorney who tried to bring in the California Zodiac serial killer (offering to represent him in court for free) by communicating with him by phone.

Belli made a fortune (multi-multi-multi millionaire) pioneering medical malpractice lawsuits. He revolutionized this kind of law, and other lawyers (being greedy, bottom-feeding intestinal parasites) read his law books, took his courses, and--as you might predict--was part of creating the mess that medicine is in now.

I find myself in the peculiar position of admiring him and, at the same time, despising him as a piece of walking dogsh-t.
 
To be fair here, Obama tried to get both parties together to make a good plan. The two sides hate each other so much that they couldn’t agree on much, leaving what was passed. The whole system sucks and there is too much money being made for any real improvements to happen. Sorry, the system is broken and corrupt, you can’t blame that on one man. With the continued division and literally hatred being perpetuated nothing will ever get done.

Obamacare is 100% the product of democrats. They had the super-majority and could have made it anything they wanted. So do not blame republicans for anything in Obamacare. And yes, the full blame falls on Obama's shoulders.
Dems keep talking about the 10-20 million "who now have health care". I've never hear anyone quote how many millions have since lost their health care due to out-of-control costs. People like GreyGhost. People like me. I'm too 'rich' to get any help. But it'd be $16k+ per year for horrible insurance with a $10k deductible. Reality is, and always has been, that when gov't gets involved in anything, it becomes slow, inefficient, and full of corruption and problems. Ta da, that is Obamascare! 10 letters. Just like "Train Wreck". Or "Disastrous". Or "Death Board".

Anyone who still thinks Obamacare is a good idea is blindfolded.
 
Obamacare is 100% the product of democrats. They had the super-majority and could have made it anything they wanted. So do not blame republicans for anything in Obamacare. And yes, the full blame falls on Obama's shoulders.

That's a pretty fair point.

No they didn't underestimate anything. It was designed to fail, and then they planned to step in and say "Well it's so bad now, the only fix is going to 'single payer' "

I think the version they ended up with (versus the original), was likely designed to fail, but part of that was also the inability to correctly forecast the results. Whether that was intentional or not..... ???

The point is, many of us who HAD coverage already, saw our premiums go WAY up. Mine alone went up $100 a month. I'm sorry, but that's a) not sustainable, b) not what I signed up for, or voted for, and c) simply not in the budget. Currently, it's already way too much for me to be added to my wife's....(I'm a contracted employee at present, so have no such benefits)...

So count me in to those who lost coverage. And I'm also too "rich" LOL (even though paycheck to paycheck) to get a decent priced ObamaCare.

The bottom line is that we need a hybrid system. One that can take care of everyone, but one that still has the incentives for folks seeking private insurance, etc. Likewise, there has to be profit incentives for folks to develop new treatments, new techniques, etc.

Full state run, or full private, neither is the answer alone.
 
I think the version they ended up with (versus the original), was likely designed to fail, but part of that was also the inability to correctly forecast the results. Whether that was intentional or not..... ???
The claims and promises they made were mathematically impossible.
 
The point is, many of us who HAD coverage already, saw our premiums go WAY up. Mine alone went up $100 a month. I'm sorry, but that's a) not sustainable, b) not what I signed up for, or voted for, and c) simply not in the budget.

Only $100? That's nothing. I don't remember the exact numbers. But before Obamacare, it was maybe $400/month for 2 people with a $10k deductible. The following year it went to $600. Then $800. Then $1200 and the sky from there. No illness, nothing special. When it hit $15k/year, I said no thank you.
 

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