Catalan independence?

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SE, Jontte,
Agreed. I'm not sure which side of the pond invents new versions of communism faster. We have Californistan and New York.

And so true about the UK. If they leave, if Catalan follows, who else? Eventually the leaches won't have blood to suck. To compensate they'll add the ever-friendly Turkey?

One question, how much debt does the EU have? First, as just the EU. Then the individual nations. How does it compare relatively to our $20T debt (or $100T, depends on how you add it)?

We have Londonabad and Birmingistan :)

Catalonia first then the Basques in Northern Spain and Southern France wanting freedom, Then the Roma in the east, the Sicilians and of course the Scots, And even within Scotland the oil and fish rich Orkneys, Shetlands and Western Isles are muting independence from Scotland. Many Welsh and Irish want out of the UK.

"""One question, how much debt does the EU have? First, as just the EU. """ HAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA..........Intake of breath...... HA HA HA HA HA................ How much debt have the EU THATS A GOOD ONE because NO ONE KNOWS because the EU has not had its accounts signed off for over 25 years by its OWN accountants. FRAUD is MASSIVE in the EU as an example the money paid the Greek farmers for growing Olives that they claim they have is actually 20 times more than the entire land area of Greece. The EU has built ultra modern FREEWAYS in places like Poland and Romania that sweep elegantly from ...... An empty field to an empty field.
The EU funded a multi million pound underground rail system in Greece but did not fit in any ticket machines or barriers for decades. We have barrels of Virgin Olive oil that are TOXIC, We have Froggie farmers being paid MILLIONS each month NOT to grow vines for wine. But its not all bad the EU Parliament has just awarded itself a massive wage rise to go with their free travel in limosines, Tax free Members only supermakets ( like the soviet leaders did) VIP jets for their own use. They even move the Pariament between two different cities every couples of months costing tens of millions at a time.

I can only guess but you are 325 million people living WAY beyond your means and Europe is 650 million people living way beyond their means, But in many countries unemployment is over 55% among the 18 to 30s, pensions have been cut by 80% in parts of Greece. Europe is bankrupt but they just keep going back to the member states and demanding block payments.

How much debt has the EU is the queston that would probably trigger the EUs collapse if the truth came out.
 
Jontte,

I still don't get it. Millions of muslim men randomly distributed across the continent. They rape women at will with no consequences. They suck welfare programs. They defecate in public parks. They riot when they don't get what they want. That is what Europe has right now. And this is in every town across Europe.

I'm just added another million or so muslims concentrated in one country at the opposite end. Is that really worse than what is going on right now?

It is normal socialist / marxist doctrine to keep the masses hungry and compliant by always have far more people than jobs or houses that way the peasants never revolt so long as the state keeps a roof over their heads and basic food in their bellies, it keeps WAGES down and products CHEAPER to sell to other places like the US Japan etc And they use the inter race hostility to scapegoat the EUs own failures whilst the ruling elite live like gods.
 
it is what it is,just have to make do,but to add Turkey to this mess would be a gigantic disaster...
what is funny with my lot,we are a very patient people,but when you push enough...that's what my dad used to say and that's what my DI said
to our sarge who complained to him that we bitch and moan too much;let them do that,'cause when they are silent,turn away and leave...

I don't like it at all having those towel heads here,they are nothing but leeches :mad: one of the reasons I prep,by the way my friend.

Hark at him from Finland when Swedish MEPs are saying the government of Finland should be shared between Sweden and the EU!!!!
 
this will end in alot of blood,more than what the Spanish police already spilled on the streets of Barcelona..
one day,someone will emerge and speak of glory,independance,power.....again....
 
Panicked Brussels issue Catalonia shock ULTIMATUM: ‘If you quit Spain, you quit EU!’

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/862293/catalonia-referendum-independence-european-union-eu

Mav,
I saw that the day of the election, no surprise. But I think the EU is setting themselves up for an even greater fall. They alienated Britain. Now Catalan. Several other small areas are getting ready for their own independence votes. All these little areas can form their own BEU (Better European Union). Trade among themselves. They can easily pass laws to distinguish the BEU from the EU. BEU bans the muslim invaders and deports them to Antarctica immediately. BEU has limited overlord taxes and power. BEU allows gun ownership and even encourages it among citizens. Ah, here's the best one. The BEU sells gasoline at slightly higher prices than the US! And for travel, if the EU blocks BEU borders, then that can work both ways with hefty tolls. And the BEU can offer other EU countries to switch teams. Competition is a wonderful thing.

The EU think they have all the cards. They're going to quickly find out their pair of 2's won't go very far. But does anyone think the EU will let things go this way without a fight?
 
Mav,
I saw that the day of the election, no surprise. But I think the EU is setting themselves up for an even greater fall. They alienated Britain. Now Catalan. Several other small areas are getting ready for their own independence votes. All these little areas can form their own BEU (Better European Union). Trade among themselves. They can easily pass laws to distinguish the BEU from the EU. BEU bans the muslim invaders and deports them to Antarctica immediately. BEU has limited overlord taxes and power. BEU allows gun ownership and even encourages it among citizens. Ah, here's the best one. The BEU sells gasoline at slightly higher prices than the US! And for travel, if the EU blocks BEU borders, then that can work both ways with hefty tolls. And the BEU can offer other EU countries to switch teams. Competition is a wonderful thing.

The EU think they have all the cards. They're going to quickly find out their pair of 2's won't go very far. But does anyone think the EU will let things go this way without a fight?

Most of these break off states will end up in the similar situation as Taiwan, the EU will request better trade deals with it's trading partners not to recognize these break-away regions. We shall see hopefully with no blood regardless!
 
TF,we can't pollute antartica,it's way too beautiful and pristine place ;)
well monday comes and we might hear what Catalonia does.
 
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...talan-independence-day-Brexit-news-map-Europe

More Folks in europe want to be free from the evil of Federalism.

Catalan-independence-map-862861.jpg
 
TF,we can't pollute antartica,it's way too beautiful and pristine place ;)

Great point. Let's comprise. You'll want to make sure these thugs don't take anything with them to Antarctica, so strip search them (and don't give them any clothes back). Then drop them off a mile from the beach (water side or land side? doesn't matter after an hour), and let nature take it's course.

Reality is this, send the first plane load. Video it & release the video to the public. Then you can add a $1000 exit tax for every person wanting out of the country! Not only will zero gov't money be spent hunting down these illegals, you can force a tax on them to 'allow' them to leave. Think of it similar to Trump saying Mexico will pay for the border wall. You might need a plane load once a year to remind them, but it'll be minimal effort after the first are shown as muslim-popsicles.

SE, I completely understand distrust at the federal level. You can also have each individual country (UK, Catalan...) negotiate with each other to do this. But they need to stay unified otherwise the EU will separate each of them & conquer each in isolation.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/...&gwh=CBC47D57CF7AB03AED98491383F59091&gwt=pay

It's been a couple of weeks of seeing who blinks first. Spain demanded Catalan sit down at the table based on no discussion of independence. Catalan demands Spain sit down at the table with independence as a final option. Both sides include an "OR ELSE" in their demands.

No actions until today. Spain now is 'starting the process' of removing all leaders of Catalan from power. They quote a never-used clause of the Spanish Constitution. Catalan has not responded.

One part that will be interesting is that Catalan has shed no blood, but Spain has shown to hesitation in drawing blood (injuring over 800 trying to stop the election, from throwing people down stairs, shooting with rubber bullets, etc). The ball is now in Catalan's court. Will they prepare to defend their leadership? With force? Neither side really wants to shed blood, to a degree they are all 'fellow spaniards'. But the same could be said of the US Civil War, by-and-far the most blood US war ever. What has mankind learned in 150 years?

Strategically, Catalan has the easier position of simply defending an existing border while Spain has to 'invade' while not looking MORE brutal to fellow Europeans. Catalan's challenge will be keeping economic relations with the rest of the EU...
 
SE,

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/fears-violence-tens-thousands-take-11383827

450k people in Barcelona alone protested the federal actions today. One city, almost 1/2 million people. Watch the video, it is a PEACEFUL protest. I have been really impressed at how peaceful these protests have been (I've seen too many violent ones here in the US I guess). This was the reply from Catalan to Spain: "You're p*ssing us off, and we are a united people against an overbearing federal gov't. You cannot over power a united people in their own nation. Move at your own risk." That is what I take away from a 1/2 million people protest in a city of only 3 million people... So 1 in 6 people were out protesting (take out children and the elderly and people who had to work and that's a substantial percentage).
 
I'm genuinely afraid because the Spanish are vicious fighters and very bloody minded grudge holders, if this turns into another civil war it will make the Yugoslavian war look like a pillow fight and just like last time it will tear Europe apart as Germany and the EU side with the Spanish government.
 

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